145: Establish Your Brand, Build the Right Team and Live the Lifestyle You Deserve with Paul Potratz

Robert Plank: Paul Potratz is the COO of Potratz, a firm in Schenectady, New York, I hope I said his name and the city right, that works with businesses in the US, Canada and Copenhagen on creating top funnel brand strategies, consumer engagement content on websites and social media, and sales training. Sounds like lots of good stuff. How are things today Paul?

Paul Potratz: Good. Good. How about you Robert?

Robert Plank: Super fantastic. I see you're in upstate New York. I was there about a year ago. I fell and broke my ankle in two places there, so I don't think I'll be going back.

Paul Potratz: That's not the norm here. I mean it's a bunch of Italian food and senior citizens.

Robert Plank: May I just had to go to your exact city, not just the general area maybe.

Paul Potratz: That's probably what it was, yeah.

Robert Plank: In your general area of Schenectady, New York and wherever else the world takes you, what would you say that it is that you do and what makes you different and special?

Paul Potratz: We work with business owners, but we work with business owners establishing a brand and getting new clients. That's kind of it in a nutshell. That's our ad agency portion. In the last few months I've started to expand out of that because the agency does well. What I mean by expanding is working with business owners or future business owners of how to get their business going.

Robert Plank: Okay. Do you have any cool stories ... Do you have any cool, interesting, almost like cutting edge things that you're doing to help these businesses recently?

Paul Potratz: Yeah. Matter of fact I do. I'm asked that question a lot, what's cool, what's new, what's cutting edge? We can definitely talk about dynamic retargeting and gmail ads. We have workshops here at our office a lot and what I've done is I'm like let's go back to the basics, because with all the new technology and everything we forget about the basics of how to answer to phone, how to actually proof our emails, how to send emails, how to build an email data base ... To kind of take all that back, because there's so many things swirling through my head, it's all about brand. I feel like that's what people are missing because of all the online ... The digital marketing pay-per-click, is they don't establish a brand, and if you don't establish a brand all you have is sell by price, die by price.

Robert Plank: What should be people be doing to establish that brand?

Paul Potratz: You've got to decide what is it that you ... What is your product, what is your service and how does it improve one's lives. You've got to decide how does it really help someone. The workshop I was in a few weeks ago ... I was in Virginia and I was trying to get the business owners to understand how does your product or service improve somebody's life. I gave them a little test or a task to do to come up, work together in groups, and they just couldn't get out of the sales pitch. That's what they wanted to do, is pitch their product and not talk about how their product or service was going to help somebody save time, save money, improve their life.

Robert Plank: They were lacking what's in it for me then?

Paul Potratz: Exactly. You've got to think selfish. You've got to turn yourself around and not only in that negative, but you've got think why does someone want to do business with you other than price. Most business owners, they want to automatically go to price, and if you sell by price you don't ... The only way you can go is go down.

Robert Plank: Right. Do you have a case study where that kind of thing happened just to kind of reinforce the point home? Do you have anyone that you came across where maybe they were trying to compete on price and you changed their ways and made them market better?

Paul Potratz: Yeah. Definitely. Even ourselves, we were growing and growing and growing as an agency and we do an interview process with a prospective client and then we said we want to compete against these other companies, so we kind of lost our way. This was about a year and a half ago. We started competing on price, but we're not scalable for that, for price, and I definitely seen the result after doing that for about eight months. Granted we added a lot of clients, but the clients we added didn't stay with us as long.

That's been something that we've been talking about for a number of years with all of our clients. For example, I've got a good friend of mine, he started out as a client and now he's a really good friend. His name is Ryan. Ryan is in the market, he's a car dealer, and I'll talk about that because automotive can be very relatable to everybody. When we first started working together he was completing on price. Now he doesn't compete on price and his cars are on the average of fifteen hundred to two thousand dollars more than competing dealers in the market, but he's outselling them.

Robert Plank: What are you having him do specifically to outsell his competitors there?

Paul Potratz: It's all about the experience. What I mean by the experience, I mean ... I really talk about like Macy's versus Nordstrom. I'm sure a lot of your listeners have been into those two stores. You go to Macy's and it's ... You just don't get that help. You don't get that experience and they drop everything in the bag ... For example, you go, you buy a tie ... I go, I buy a tie, I pay good money or a tie. They take the tie, they just drop it in the bag. They roll it in half and they drop it in the bag, that's Macy's. Nordstrom, they take that tie and they're like, let me help you find a shirt, let me help you find a suit, let me help you find a pocket square, let me help you find socks, and so on and so forth. Then when you purchase the tie they fold it, they put it a box, they put it in a bag, they take your credit card, they say thank you, they walk around the counter and they hand you the bag instead of just shoving it to you across the counter.

Ryan being a car dealer, his team has been trained instead of when you come on the lot, "Hey, can I help you? What are you looking for? How much are you going to put down," those type of things. Even in their phone process and how they talk and how they have the discussion and the things that they deliver ... You fill in a lead form on his website, it's not all about price. It's to find exactly is that vehicle right for you. It's a discussion and it's helping. It's really more of a consultation than just how quick can I sell this to you and get you out of here.

Robert Plank: It sounds like lots of I guess little touches. Were those something that you thought of on your own or did you go and research the other car dealers? How did you settle on these specific things that Ryan, the car dealer, should have been doing?

Paul Potratz: It's definitely a partnership. Ryan is a big believer in making sure that he has the right team, the interview process. If you don't have the right team you will never be able to do it. My own experience ... How do we like to be treated when we go to spend money? It was a wake-up call to me. Some years back I was in Paris, France with my wife at the store named Charvet. Charvet is where the Kennedys used to get their shirts. It's custom made shirts and it's a very popular store. That was part of my whole ... When we go to Paris I'm going to go to Charvet.

I remember going in, and this place is really a dump. It's three stories of a dump, but their shirts are all custom made. I remember I went in and I met the woman and I said, "I want to get some shirts done." We're on the second floor and she's trying the different shirts on. They have the test shirts. I'm like, "Okay, this is the one I like." She's like, "No, no, no, it doesn't fit." I was like, "Yeah, it fits," because I wanted this shirt, because after you get a little older you realize that the shoulders have got to fit just right. I had a shirt, it was a sixteen in the collar, and she said, "No, that's too tight. You need a sixteen and a half," but when you go up to the next size the shoulders get bigger.

I'm like, "No, no, no, I want a sixteen. I'm losing weight." She's like, "No. I won't sell it to you." I said, "What? What do you mean you won't sell it to me?" I went into this discussion and everything. She said, "No, I'm not a sales person. I'm a consultant. I would not let my shirt go out of this store looking like that on you." She was actually not going to complete the sale. It was just the whole experience and the process that she took me through, and I was like wow, there's something to this, because I went in to get maybe one or two shirts and I ended up leaving with like ten, because I was told I couldn't do it and the experience was different and it was fascinating, which made me really start to study what is the psychology of when we're purchasing.

We talk about the Nordstrom effect, something like high end purses and how people will buy a high end purse even though the quality is not any different, it's just the whole mystique, the prestigious factor of it all. You can do that in any product, any service, regardless of the competition you have.

Robert Plank: Is this something that everyone should be doing, looking to I guess class up the process and make it less of a sales transaction and more of a consultation?

Paul Potratz: I think so. Definitely. Even today, I mean you kind of think about it. All of us are walking around with smart phones now, and when we go to purchase something generally we do research. We do research. Even if we're going to go buy a three dollar and fifty cent air freshener that you plug in the wall, we still want to do the research on it. If everybody is going online to do research, shouldn't you start being a consultative seller instead of just trying to sell by price? Granted there's going to be those salespeople and those business owners out there, that's what they think a call to action is, it's price, and that's what they're going to focus on. But if you want to be able to have loyal clients, and I use the word clients instead of customers, because customers go to Walmart. Clients, you're a trusted authority. If you want to have those repeat clients over and over and you want to build word-of-mouth and you want to build your brand, you need to become a consultant regardless of the product or service your selling.

Robert Plank: I like that. I like that idea. Kind of along those lines of you building this stuff up and having the right team and having the right process, I understand that you took a little bit of a road trip lately. Is that right?

Paul Potratz: I'm constantly taking road trips, so I'm not sure which one you're referring to since I've had a lot of them.

Robert Plank: Tell me about something. Tell me is this ... You take these road trips all the time. Is this possible because you've built up this good team and kind of a machine that runs without you, or what's the secret to having the successful business, but also being able to take time off whenever you want?

Paul Potratz: Yeah. I've definitely taken a lot of road trips, personal and business wise. When I started the agency, I started it ... I should have called it Dude and His Dog Agency, because I started in the bedroom with my dog laying at my feet and I was doing it all. I was doing copywriting, media buying, video production, account management, sales and everything. It's definitely been over the years, because when I started in 2003, the interview process and trying to find the right team members, and we've had some failures, but that's part of growing, and we've had some tremendous success. The agency pretty much ... I won't say it runs itself, but I've got a team of individuals that are dedicated and they run with it and they treat it like it's their own business.

We've definitely set it up ... For example, we have unlimited paid time off. If somebody want's to take a month off, take a month off, as long as you're hitting your key performance and your key result areas, it doesn't make a difference. The company pretty much runs on peer pressure, which allows me one of the trips that I took where I went out west and I spent a few weeks out west on my dirt bike and didn't worry about it. That's part of it. Are you the type of business owner that's working in your business or working on your business? I try to work on the business, which has allowed me to start another company since then, and the agency is more or less my retirement egg I guess you can say.

Robert Plank: Cool. Was it just a matter of like ... How did you get from the 2003 era to now? Was it just a matter of the combination of this peer pressure thing and trying different people out? How did you get the whole team and all that figured out and how did you get it to become a thing where you didn't have to always watch over it and micromanage?

Paul Potratz: It's a culture. The different places I've worked over they years, I would work for the manager, not a leader, that would just do stupid things. He wouldn't let people make decisions. He wouldn't let people fail. He wouldn't let people succeed. You had to do it his way. I worked in corporate American for a number of years and everything about corporate America, I was like it just doesn't make any sense. I don't like it and I don't agree with it.

When I started the company and I started adding employees I said how do I let people make decisions, and it's the little things ... Granted, you can read all the stuff in books, but that's what happens so many times. A business owner will read something in a book or they'll listen to a podcast or they'll go hear a speaker talk, but they don't put those things in action and plan their day out and making sure that they're doing that. When one of my team members come into my door and they're like, "Paul, I got a question," I'm like, "Okay. Great. What's your question?"

I always make sure when they come with a question that they'll say, "This is what I think I should do and I think this is going to be the result," and I'm like, "Okay. Great. Go try it. See what happens." People aren't scared to fail, they're not scared to lose clients or whatever the recourse is going to be because they know I'm always going to be there to support them. It's just pushing, you make the decision, and it's definitely grown. Granted we've had some people that haven't made very wise decisions, but then there always has to ... I'm not going to say there has to be a consequence, but what did you learn from that?

That's really what our business is built on, coming to work and having fun, making somebody's day, doing what's right, and not worrying about the money, because the money will follow if you do a great job.

Robert Plank: That's an awesome attitude. I like that idea of letting your people fail so that they'll learn the decision on their own. Did I hear that right, that when they come to you with a question they have to already kind of have somewhat of an answer packaged with that question? Was that right?

Paul Potratz: Yes. Exactly. Otherwise the company ... It won't ever grow on its own. If you've got to be a dictator and you're literally saying you have to do this, you have to do that, and people are scared to make decisions, how's your company going to grow? How is it going to scale? You're always going to have to be involved in the company, one of two reasons, either you didn't train your people or your people are scared to make decisions. Then if they're scared to make decisions or if you're not letting them make decisions, they're going to end up going somewhere else anyway, because if they're that type of personality and mentality that they want to be the decision maker, they're going to go somewhere where they can be that person.

Robert Plank: Right. Has this whole method of yours, has it ever failed really badly? Has it ever not worked?

Paul Potratz: Yeah. I have a belief, and I've proved it over and over and over again, that when people go to work, when they get up in the morning and they come to work, they don't come to fail. They come to succeed, but as a leader you've got to understand what is success for each individual? A lot of times we think we'll pay them more money. Money's nice, yeah, and they definitely want to make money and our team makes good money ... I mean we pay them more here in upstate New York than they can make in Boston or New York City, but it's not always money. There's so much more to it.

With that same mindset that people want to succeed and you've got to understand what is success for them, there's been a time or two or maybe a dozen times that I've given an individual too much leeway or let them I guess spread their wings too quick before they were ready and then they just kept on failing and failing and failing. Then they're like this isn't for me. It does take the right personality, which is great. Interviewing ... I don't have anything to do with interviewing here, and termination ... I have nothing to do with termination. That's a committee of the team. The committee decides who's going to be interviewed, who's hired and who's fired.

Robert Plank: Are you saying that if someone is on the team and they're kind of unpopular with everyone else they can get booted out?

Paul Potratz: Yes.

Robert Plank: Wow, that's crazy, but kind of interesting and kind of novel there too.

Paul Potratz: Think about it. We've had different people that would come in, whether it was a graphic designer or a video editor or somebody that just does new business presentations, if they're not doing their job, then that's more work for everybody else. If they're failing, then that's a reputation for the entire company. They're not pulling their weight and people are saying, "why am I not getting my bonus? Why didn't I get my quarterly bonus? Why didn't I get my year end bonus?" It's like, "You tell me. Why do you think you didn't get it? What happened? Did we have any issues?"

We had a direct mail that was done incorrectly. We had to send it again. That cost us fifteen thousand dollars. We had a Facebook campaign that was run incorrectly. That cost us eighteen thousand dollars, so I have them tell me why it's not happening. How did that happen? So-and-so did this and so-and-so did that. Okay, there you go.

Robert Plank: How did you figure all this out? Was this all trial and error or ... This all seems kind of weird, but in a good way. How did all this come about?

Paul Potratz: To be completely honest is I'm lazy. I hate doing paperwork. It's not my strength. I love the creative process and creative thought. If I'm lazy doing paperwork, I've got to find other people to do it. If I'm lazy doing finances, I've got to find other people to do it. I said why not empower the people here that really want to do it? That's where it really came. I guess that's a good explanation of what it is. There's things that I really like to do and things I don't like to do, and the things I don't like to do I definitely want to have other people doing that that enjoy it.

Robert Plank: I like that. It reminds me of the Bill Gates quote where he says something like if you want something done find a lazy person to do it because they'll find an easy and fast way to get it done.

Paul Potratz: Exactly. There you go.

Robert Plank: Cool. Can you tell me about these two businesses and what's happening with them and what's ... Tell us about them and where people can find out about them and all that good stuff.

Paul Potratz: Yeah. The agency name is Potratz. We're known as a digital agency, but my newest venture is my ... It's my website that's launching pretty quick, which is my first name and last name, Paul Potratz. There's a page that spins off of that that called The Growth Mindset. What I've done with The Growth Mindset ... Because when I started my company I really struggled. What bookkeeping system do I use? What do I need to have on my business cards? Do I need a slogan? Do I need a logo? What website do I use? All these questions. How do I hire new people? What should be a pay plan?

When you're starting a company, or even in business, people struggle with that. What I've done is I've gone all around the country and I'm on the lookout for smart entrepreneurs. I've said, "Why don't you join The Growth Mindset?" The Growth Mindset is a group of entrepreneurs. It's where we share bundles every week, so we have a new thing that comes out, it can be anything from how to use YouTube to market yourself or how to make sure that your financial statement is balanced correctly, whatever it might be. That's our newest thing that we're launching. It's coming out November 22nd and it's called The Growth Mindset. It's off of my website.

We do, like I said, bundles. Video is a part of it. We do webinars, so we have questions and answers, but it's for entrepreneurs who are wanting to grow their business. It's a membership website, but it's cheap. We're still figuring out the pricing, but it's going to be thirty and fifty dollars a month.

Robert Plank: Is that one at PaulPotratz.com?

Paul Potratz: Yeah, PaulPotratz.com.

Robert Plank: The website of your agency, is that PPADV.com?

Paul Potratz: That's it. Yep.

Robert Plank: Do you have any plans to make any kind of website that teaches people how to become a snappy dresser?

Paul Potratz: I put that out there and no one seemed like they were really interested in it. I don't know. I'll tell you what, I love putting ginghams and plaids and stripes together in different colors. It's just hard to find guys that are willing to wear that other than myself.

Robert Plank: Maybe you can keep all of the secrets to yourself then?

Paul Potratz: I'm more than happy to share everything I know, but it's just ... Then people are always like "Yeah, that looks good. That looks sharp. I just wouldn't be able to pull it off." I was like, "Yeah, you'd be able to pull it off. It's easy. Just throw some stuff together with some colors and some patterns and you're good."

Robert Plank: They just need more confidence.

Paul Potratz: Exactly. That's what it is. I think that's part of the branding thing. That was I point I wanted to make because I felt like so many people were dressing like me and I said I'm going to take it to another level.

Robert Plank: You might as well, right, if you're doing it anyway?

Paul Potratz: Yeah. Exactly. What the heck, why not?

Robert Plank: Cool. Along those lines, thanks for stopping by the show Paul. The websites are ppadv.com and paulpotratz.com. Thanks again for stopping by.

Paul Potratz: Thanks Robert. Have a great day.