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Angela Ford: I really got started in the online marketing, first of all, because I'm obsessed with social media, like a lot of the younger generation. It's just so attractive and so much fun, especially to get a lot of likes and comments on different things. That's initially what got me started and really attracted me to online marketing. After that, I discovered it was an excellent way to really reach people that aren't next door to you, in your neighborhood, or in the same city that you're in, but really reach out to them and help them with promoting their products or services. That's something that I've always been in the business of promoting products or services. I was a musician when I was younger, and after that I transitioned into blogging. Now, I have a book out. That's something that I really wanted to focus on. How do I get visible online? How do I help others get visible online? What do you need to do in order to get a fan base and get people that will talk about your work and promote it for you? That's really what got me into it.

What really makes me unique here is that even though I do a lot of the digital marketing, I actually write fantasy novels. That's my huge passion project. That's a little strange, a little different there. It's a lot of fun for me. Then, what I get to do is not only promote those, but also promote my business. I do a lot with digital marketing. I work with a lot of creative entrepreneurs who have their own websites, their own blogs. Some of them actually sell products. Some of them do more of the courses and services. It really depends there. It's a fun way to work together to really strategize, be creative, and figure out, "Okay. What can I do today to get visible online, to get more clients, send people back to my website, and build that traffic, and build up a reputation on social media?"

Robert Plank: That's cool. I especially like that you have your fantasy novel as your hobby, but isn't it cool if the hobby we have makes us some money, too, right?

Angela Ford: Oh. Absolutely. I firmly believe that with what the entrepreneurial lifestyle, we all want to do a lot of different things. We're not just in it for one thing, like you just don't do a podcast, and that's it. I don't just do digital marketing for other people, and that's it. We all have different passions and different things that we're doing in our lives. Regardless of whether or not it's making money, but it's a huge plus and a huge bonus if it is.

Robert Plank: Right. All right. As far as that goes, like as far as the social media especially Twitter and stuff like that, do you think that there is a dark side to some of the social media? Especially with the, you know, a lot of people putting in a lot of time, not getting a lot of traction, or some of the bots and the spam stuff and going down a rabbit hole. Do you see people using social media in the wrong way?

Angela Ford: Oh, for sure. It's so funny that you say that, because every now and then I will get on Instagram or I'll get on Twitter, and I'll see a bunch of posts. I'm like, "Oh no. The marketers have come to down. They're ruining this social media platform, because they're really gungho promoting their next webinar, their next course, or they just have a ton of quotes there." It can be kind of frustrating. It takes away some of that real human connection when you get all of the spams and the bots coming in. Then, all of the posts that are really hardcore promotional. There definitely is that side, and it really isn't about promoting, promoting, promoting. The whole point of social media is to be social and to share authentically who you are, yourself, even if you're focused on one topic. That's one thing that I find frustrating is a lot of the promotion, and the fact that it's all based on services and products, and not necessarily on, like "I am an individual. Today, I'm at the beach." End of story.

Robert Plank: With all that, with all the marketers coming in an ruining everything, is there an answer? Is there a way to defeat all that?

Angela Ford: Oh, absolutely. There's a fine line between just pushing products and services, and then between pushing your lifestyle as an entrepreneur and what you do as an entrepreneur. I think Instagram is actually a fun way to show, because it's very focused on visuals, so there's really not a good way for a lot of marketers to come in and really promote their products and services. They can do it, but there's not a great way to do it. What I love about Instagram, particularly, is it's all focused on lifestyle and beautiful photos. You can really just take a picture of what you're doing today, and say "Hey. Today, I'm working from this coffee shop. I'm doing this, and I'm being productive. These are the three things that really help me. Share what you're doing today and tag me in the photo."

It starts a conversation going back and forth between people, and that's really what social media is about with getting that conversation started. Not just making it a one way conversation, but going back and forth sharing what you're doing, maybe some of the tips and tactics that you have. Then, asking people and inviting them to the conversation. Asking a question at the end. That's huge.

Robert Plank: As opposed to just being the spam route and being the machine gun, right?

Angela Ford: Exactly. As opposed to just saying, "Hey. My webinar is on tomorrow at eleven. Come join. Sign up. Here's the link."

Robert Plank: I mean, if we do have that webinar, if we do have something to sell, what's the attack plan, I guess? Is it kind of like more of a long game, where you kind of put little tidbits in, or ... I guess I'm trying to figure out is there a way to actually sell something on social media and not be a jerk about it, but also get some traffic using one of those platforms?

Angela Ford: Yeah. For sure. For sure. If there's a good way to do it on all social media platforms as a matter of fact, but first of all, you have to build a reputation and make sure what you're offering is of value to others, that you're being authentic, that you're establishing that two way conversation by asking questions, getting involved with others, and then when you do have something, when you do have that webinar, that new book that's out, when you do make that announcement people are going to be much more excited about it, because you've taken an interest in their lives. Now, they're your fans. They're interested in what you're doing. When you have something come out, they're all excited, and they're ready to sign up, join, and help promote it. It really is a long game. It's value first, then sells later. You can even put that down as the 80/20 rule. 80% just being helpful, valuable, and authentic, and 20% actually selling and promoting.

Robert Plank: Interesting. Once you have them hooked, then it's time to actually send them to a link or something like that.

Angela Ford: Absolutely. It's the same thing with new friendships. When you dive into a new friendship or making friends with people, you don't necessarily ask them for a favor first. You get to know them. You figure out what makes them tick. Then, later on when you do have a favor to ask, they're more than happy. They're like, "Oh. Of course. We've been friends forever. Let's do this."

Robert Plank: Cool. Yeah. You've been friends for like six months or three months or something, it's like, "Okay. Now that I've given you just overwhelming value. I've given you so much more than I'm asking, even though it's delivered over this huge period of time. Now, it's like I've given you a hundred times, and I'm only asking for ten back." Right?

Angela Ford: Yes. Yup. Yeah.

Robert Plank: Cool. You mentioned a few minutes ago about your fantasy novels, and I don't know lately I've just been looking for some interesting stories and stuff that's not the usual norm. Can you tell us about your ... I mean, feel free. Go in to whatever kind of detail, but I mean could you tell us about your fantasy novels? How that came to be? How you used your marketing skill in this new frontier, I guess, for you?

Angela Ford: Yeah. Absolutely. I first started writing when I was like ten, eleven, or twelve. I used to journal every single day. I have four sisters, and they're all very imaginative and creative. We made up all sorts of stories and games when we were younger and playing together. After awhile, I started writing those down and turning them to stories. My thinking was that I wanted to create this world was similar to earth and similar to the humans in earth, but was completely different. It's not even in the same galaxy. It's this whole other world that I created.

There's four different worlds, which is why it's called The Four Worlds series. They're all on the same planet. There are different adventures that take place throughout each of the worlds. Each of the books focuses on one of those worlds. The first book that's out, The Five Warriors, is about the western world. One of the things that I really wanted to do was be different than other fantasy authors. A lot of fantasy authors, they incorporate different mythical beasts inside their stories. They have the dragons, the wizards, the elves, and the goblins. Very distinct good and bad creatures. One of the things I didn't want was I didn't want to have any of those creatures. I also didn't want to have any humans in the story.

Robert Plank: Interesting.

Angela Ford: It's all very brand new. There are no human. There are no dragons. There are no wizards. There are things that are very similar to it. I just call them by different names. Now, I first wrote the stories when I was a teenager, and now I'm rewriting all of them to make them actually be good. The plot was ... It wasn't that great to be honest. I started rewriting those. One of the big things I wanted to focus on was diversity. Each of my books, I have four core people groups. They are all very distinct and very different. There's the group of people that are very curious. They just like to go on adventures. They often get into trouble, because they are way to curious for their own good. Then, there are people that just like to live in forests and that's it. They have their own secrets. They are very in tune with nature and the forests. There's also the people group that they just want to farm and stay at home. Eat, drink, and be married, and have lots of children. Have their rich lives just staying at home. The last people group, they really love high elevations, mountains, and that's where they'll be found. Up above everyone else.

In the first book, these four people groups they actually come together, and it's just a very interesting blend seeing how diverse they are and how distinct they are, their cultures, and their backgrounds. Then, how that blends together when they come together. It actually has the message that, "We're stronger together when we do come together to do these different things, whether it's saving the world or going off on another adventure. That's really one of the things I wanted to focus and highlight in my books that being different is a good thing, but we can all work together.

Robert Plank: The whole thing is cool. I especially like that you kind of took the, I don't know, the raw creativity, the spark, or whatever you want to called it, the stuff from childhood, then come up with all these new ideas. Then, you kind of put it into a box, refined it, and made it something that actually makes sense, a good plot, and good characters, and stuff like that. I think that's really cool, especially because like we've been talking for the last few minutes about how it's uncool to sell a product. It's uncool to sell coaching, but then on the internet there's so many ways to make money. I really like the idea of just publishing whatever, and then selling so many copies of that, that becomes a full time income. This series of books and things like that, is this on Kindle, CreateSpace, and all that?

Angela Ford: Absolutely. It's on Amazon, Barnes & Nobles, Books-A-Million. The Five Warriors is the name of the book. Yeah. It's available. It's also in the Kindle unlimited program, which is fantastic both for authors and for readers. Readers, if they're a part of the program, they can read the book for free. Then, on the author's side, I actually get paid for every page that people are reading. That's exciting. It's pure entertainment. It's relatable in a way. It is another great way to talk about something fun that's different than saying, "Okay. This book is going to help you with your business. It's going to show you how to get more traffic." It's none of those things. It's just going to be something entertaining that you could read. That's also fun to promote.

Robert Plank: Well, yeah. If people like, you have your fans, and it's fun promoting it, I mean, what's the harm in that? Could you walk us through the process of ... Okay. Once the books are done, and they're published, what are the steps you personally take to then sell a bunch of copies?

Angela Ford: Yeah, that's actually a lot of fun. I'm really big into doing a whole book launch strategy. What I like to do after the book is done, and it's gone off to the editor, and I'm done with my part of writing it out and I really just need to do some final edits, at that point, that's when I like to sit down and strategize my book launch strategy and decide what I'm going to do. When's the book going to come out? I'm going to do an actual book launch party in my city. I'm going to do a virtual book launch, which for the first book I am going to do both of those. I also did several different contests and giveaways. Just to get people involved. I gave away an Amazon gift card, a Starbucks gift card, and then a couple months after the book came out I started giving away copies of the book just to stir up some action and getting you audience to pay attention to it. I also did a lot of promoting online.

Initially, with Facebook and in different Facebook groups just talking to people about books and self publishing. Anytime someone would say, "Oh. You know, I'm looking for a new book to read. I'm looking for something fiction related." I could just drop in a link, and say "Oh. Well, I just finished writing this book. It's fantasy. It's entertainment. It will be something relaxing to read, just to calm your brain after you've been doing all this work." Just tell them about it. I actually had a lot of people that I had conversations with online, go and purchase the book immediately, just because we had a conversation about books. That happened on both Facebook and Twitter.

Then, on Instagram that just kind of fell into my lap. Once I got actual copies of the book, because I worked with a professional designer the book cover is absolutely gorgeous. I was really excited, so I posted a picture online, and said something like, "just got in my copies of my book. Here's what it looks like. I'm really excited." Just to talk about it and get some momentum going. People started commenting, liking it, talking about the book cover and how beautiful it was. They just got really excited about it. I remember thinking, "Every time I post on Instagram about the book, I got the biggest engagement that I ever had." I was like, "Oh. People really like this." Then, all of a sudden book bloggers started reaching out. They started asking me to have a copy to read and review or promote on Twitter to all of their followers. I started doing that as well. That just took care of itself. That was a huge way to start bringing in new eyes to the book.

Then, one of the other things that I also did was a couple of the free e-book giveaways. Amazon allows you to give away your book every three months for free. You can make it free for five days. I did a couple of those and promoted them on different sites, like Freebooksy. They have daily emails that go out announcing the books that are discounted are free. They have an enormous email list. Some of them have over a hundred thousands, two hundred thousand people in those email lists. When they send it out and say, "Hey. This book is free for five days." There were tons of people that download it. That also helps with the sales ranking and the visibility for it as well.

Then, one of the things that really helped reach a new audience and also the visibility of the book was going on book tours. I actually did a book tour for an entire month. That was fantastic, because different publishers and book bloggers did a blog post on the book. There was one that went live every week. Sometimes there were three that went live during a week. That was another way to tap into their audience and get other people excited about it, talking about it. There was also a giveaway that went along with that. That helped also. Giveaways are just huge for bringing in more people. That was fantastic.

I would have to say, probably, the number one thing that really helped the book sales was the reviews. I had a couple of copies that I sent out to people before the book was officially published. When it went like on Amazon, I sent an email to everyone that read it before it went like, and asked them to just leave a review. It could be a sentence, just a couple words, nothing huge or super long. Just some short sentences about what they thought about the book. That really did it. People go online, and they read the reviews. They see all of these positive reviews, that sells itself. Those are definitely a few steps I would highly recommend for anyone who has a book coming out to take advantage of in order to get the word out, reach a new market, and start those book sales.

Robert Plank: Awesome. It just sounds like what's cool about these marketing strategies that you have, especially the social media stuff, is that it sounds like it applies to anything. The low hanging fruit are the obvious choices. You say, "I'm going to sell my membership course or I'm going to sell whatever." I really like that even when you choose to do something totally out of left field, you choose to take these childhood stories and put them on Amazon.

You still use the same strategies that you learned about using Instagram for this. I also like that ... It sounds like, am I right in this? That a lot of the social media stuff, it seems like a lot of it's about the consistent daily actions, like you post every day, you log in everyday, you respond every day to build up the stuff that pays off six months or a year later. Then, another thing about that other than the daily action and stuff like that, another thing is you build up this whole following, and it's just about being real and trying crazy stuff. Is that about right? It's about really stuff and doing something every day or maybe a lot of things every day?

Angela Ford: Yes. That's so true, because I've seen when I'm consistent when I post with social media, then my followers know that I'm there. They know that I'm interested in them, and they just keep coming back. They keep commenting, because they know I'm going to reply to every single comment at some point. It really is all about that. The strategies for launching, it's the same strategy. It's just different tactics. Just different little things you do, just depending on what kind of product you have. Then, how you're targeting your audience. It's fantastic. Once you have the strategy down, it's very easy to plan different tactics. Some things can be executed within a day. I've had different ideas come up, like one I was like, "Oh. I should create a quiz for my readers, so they can figure out which one of the warriors they're most like. When they're reading the book, they can say 'oh. I'm most like this person, because I got that on the quiz.'" That took me a few hours to execute and put up. Then, tell people about it. There are just fun little things that would come to mind throughout the whole process.

Robert Plank: I love it. I think what's cool about you and I both as marketers is, we have an idea and we can put it in action the same date. Whereas, someone else who's just kind of figuring it out on their own, they might take months just to make one little quiz in there. I think it's really cool. It's almost like you're Superman on the home planet of Superman. You're kind of like everyone else, but you go to Earth and suddenly you can do all kinds of crazy things, right?

Angela Ford: Yes. That's one of the best parts about being a marketer is all the different creative ideals you can come up with, the things you can do, and the risk you can take as well. A lot of times I've found that those risks really do pay off. It's like, "Oh. I'm going to do something crazy, but hey it worked out."

Robert Plank: I mean, I'm looking at your, The Five Warriors book, and a couple of your books on Amazon, so did you ever think to do a pen name to market as some other identity as opposed to your marketing brand?

Angela Ford: I did. I really thought about that, because I wasn't sure if I should say that I was A.J. Ford or just Angela Ford. I ended up going with Angela J. Ford, because I did a search online for people that have the same name that I did. Whew. Their names were coming up first, and I was like, "Well, okay." There's another Angela Ford that writes romance novels, so her name comes up a lot during searches. I'm like, "Well, I really have to make sure I'm distinct, and I stand out." Also, one of my big things is I wanted my name on the book to be the same as my marketing name as well. It's more of a lifestyle. More of a lifestyle entrepreneur, so whenever I do decide to change my focus or pivot I just want to be able to keep that same name even if I do end up changing my focus.

Robert Plank: Because you spent however many decades already just creating all of this content under this one name, why start from scratch, right?

Angela Ford: Yes. Yes.

Robert Plank: Well, cool. Can you show us how this all ties together? I know that we talked a lot about your fiction books and things like that, what do you do as a marketer? What kind of services do you provide? What kind of products do you have for someone who's looking to grow their business?

Angela Ford: Yeah. One of the big things I do is strategy. It's the online marketing strategy. Again, it's very similar whether you have just a blog, you do services, or you have products like books and courses. The strategy is all the same. I really focus on that and narrowing it down to the targets and the goals and what actually is the desired outcome. I love the strategy. I love focusing in on that. Sometimes with the strategy I love getting down to the nitty gritty. Even telling people, "Okay. These are the hashtags you should use, because they will get you the most visibility." Fun things like that. I also do some one off coaching. Some people just want to spend an hour talking through and brainstorming ideas, so I do that as well.

Then, more of the hands on work that I do really is the website set-up. I do build websites. I built mine, and then I built the one for my book as well and all of my book's sale pages which are a lot of fun. Sometimes getting in to the back end and the layouts that changes be so much. I've done it so often that it's easy to do. I can just fly through that. Most of the time, I can get a website up in a couple of weeks. It's not a huge deal. I do that for other people as well just so they can get it up. They can take it from there, they just need some help with the foundation and laying that out.

Then, finally, I do some social media marketing as needed for people. Just help them really take off and figure out what they're doing with social media, and how to make it more about building a relationship and focusing on that long term versus selling, promoting, and just doing that.

Those are really the core services. They all tie in, because I'm not only doing the marketing part, I'm also executing it on my end with my novels. That's really fun, so I have both the strategy part, the execution, and drilling down to the actual tactics that work.

Robert Plank: I love it. I like that, it's cool, most of what you and I were able to talk about was about something that was non-marketing related in that the niche was not about how to make more money, how to improve conversion rates on your website. You still used all those same tried and true marketing tactics in an area where you kind of have fun, and you can kind of be unique and have your personality. I love all of that kind of stuff.

Angela Ford: Yes.

Robert Plank: I don't know. It's one of those things where it's like all right, you have your marketing, you have your websites, and that's okay, but what about your hobbies, right? What about something new, interesting, exciting, and unique and stuff like that. I just love that you're able to take all of the usual marketing tactics and use it for something that what started as a hobby as a kid, but has turned into a new income stream for you. That's pretty cool, I think.

Angela Ford: Yeah. Thanks so much. I mean, that really is my mission. I want to do more work that I love doing. I want to write more novels. My mission is, well, with the marketing that actually pays the bills, so I want to help people figure out how they can spend more time doing work that they love. That really is my mission.

Robert Plank: Awesome. If someone is looking for that kind of thing, if they have an existing business or an up and coming business, and they want to find you, hire you, or somehow learn from you to make things better, where can they find out about you, your books, and all the cool things that you do?

Angela Ford: Yeah. Come across to AngelaJFord.com. That is my website. Then, you can also find me on Instagram and Twitter. My handle is AFord21. I'm on there all the time. I respond a little fast, but yeah. I love to chat.

Robert Plank: Cool. All right. Angela J. Ford. Thanks, Angela, for coming on the show, and talking about all this whole slew of these cool avenues to take. Either, if you have something that can help businesses, that's cool. Even something as crazy as you have these ideas for these fantasy novels. The internet is so amazing these days that any idea you have, anything that you want to do, there's some way to get it out there. I love that. Not just with social media and the self publishing, but there's so many ways to have all these irons in the fire. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for sharing about all that. AngelaJFord.com is the place to go. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge and everything you have to share with us about Instagram, social media, book launching, all that stuff.