Clickbank vs. PayDotCom
Just to give you an update on the Clickbank situation, I've decided to stay with them.
Apparently, they WILL approve list building related products on a case-by-case basis (as a commenter to the last post mentioned), which was good to hear considering The Rich Jerk, Butterfly Marketing Reports, ListMail Pro, etc. were all approved.
Heck, one of the resale rights buyers to WordPress on Crack already has my exact product and same exact sales letter already listed on Clickbank.
Here's how to get your list building related product approved on Clickbank:
1. Make sure the product ONLY mentions responsible, double opt-in, CAN-SPAM compliant list building tactics. I would definitely stay away from gray areas like buying and selling leads, tell-a-friend scripts, and co-registration.
2. Explain to Clickbank that the product does go into list building, but only for double opt-in CAN-SPAM compliant purposes. You can do this in the "extra notes" section.
That's all there is to it.
Now like I said... I'm staying with Clickbank. I will still use PayPal for my non-affiliate sales (95% of my income) because my refund rate with PayPal is about 1% and my refund rate with Clickbank is 7.5%.
Dean's comment in the previous post said it best...
After reading the many thoughful posts it does seem that straddling CB and PDC makes the most sense.
Use 'em both but steer the big money to PDC. Use CB to attract new affiliates.
Mike Filsaime made a GREAT point that his service gets 1,000 new signups per day and he is now BEATING Clickbank.com in his Alexa ranking.
Why Don't I Roll All My PayPal Buttons Over to PayDotCom?
Two reasons... one, PayDotCom adds an extra page people have to click through. They click your order button, then are sent to PayDotCom, then have to click on ANOTHER button to pay through PayPal. Clickbank also has a 2-step order page and that's always going to hurt conversion rates no matter what.
The next reason: Someone pointed out that when someone buys from you using PayDotCom, they get added to Mike Filsaime's list corrected: that information is stored on Mike's server somewhere.
A comment from the previous post:
My wariness about using PDC is that mike filasmie, who is technically the competition of many of us, would become our provider of services...
enabling him to:
know what product sell best
how many we sell
the NAMES and EMAILS of all customers...Robert, is that a reason that would keep you away? clickbank, or other paykment processors, are not a competitor to you in the way PDCs owners are...
(I'm not accusing mike filsaime of using others information, just noting that the fact he COULD makes me uncomfortable.)
Your List is Your Baby... I don't want to send all my buyers onto his mailing list so he can outsell me.
I will put some products on PayDotCom eventually, but I want to get everything on Clickbank first. At the moment, only 40 of my products are available on Clickbank.
The moral of the story: get yourself setup with the simplest checkout process possible (I like PayPal) then use "other" processors like Clickbank and PayDotCom to increase sales... use those services as funnels instead of your primary payment processors.
I'll say that again...
Use Clickbank and PayDotCom to Attract Affiliates.
Don't Depend on Them For Survival.
I have a script called Clickbank Switch that will show one button if Clickbank affiliates come your way, and another if non-affiliates stop by, but you don't even need a script for that.
You can setup separate pages like http://www.example.com/paydotcom and http://www.example.com/clickbank then put a PayDotCom button on your "paydotcom" page, and send the PayDotCom traffic that way.
When you join PayDotCom you can get your product listed on Filsaime's marketing product review site, make your link go viral using Butterfly Reports, and get listed on PayDotCom's marketplace.
I have been with Clickbank since 2000 and it makes more sense to stick with what works and makes money, than to tear everything down and STOP making money, just to spend more time building it back up.
Keep it simple!
For you skimmers out there, here is what Clickbank will and won't approve when it comes to those list building grey areas.
- What if I were to explain co-registation, would that get approved? No.
- Would a product that mentions buying double opt-in leads get approved? No.
- Would a product that talks about tell-a-friend get approved? No.
- Would a product that talks about selling e-mail leads get approved? No.
- Can I mention double opt-in? Yes!
- Can I mention single opt-in? Yes!
There you have it. The easy way to get a list building product approved on Clickbank: explain your product only deals with CAN-SPAM compliant e-mail marketing practices. Here's the verbage I used:
This product mentions RESPONSIBLE list building, email marketing through double-opt-in email lists and CAN-SPAM compliant methods.
Was I right in choosing to stay with PayPal and Clickbank? (And in the future, PayDotCom?) Please comment below and tell me if I'm a total idiot or a freaking genius.
Filed in: Clickbank
Subscribe
If you enjoyed this article, subscribe to receive more just like it.
Interesting update to the question, Robert.
I’m not surprised at your decision – or your reasons.
However awkward CB might have been with you this time, you’ve learned from the experience and you are better placed for similar situations in the future.
You’ve also been able to share the knowledge and pass it on, which won’t hurt your reputation at all 🙂
Thanks for the information. I’m staying with Clickbank as well.
J.R. Jackson
Learn How I Earned $8-Million Working Online:
http://www.JRJackson.com
It is good to hear that at least CB can be brought arund to see another point of view even if some of their policies are on the hard to fathom side. Glad to hear this was resolved for you. And stay out of Keyes I hear they are getting pretty strange there 😉
Pesky little subscribe popin you have there very persistent 🙂
Thanks for the info – Clickbank is not really an option for me anyway – While I may live in what is considered the safest Country in South America … it’s on Clickbanks “list” – I can’t even transact on Clickbank without using a Proxy – let alone sell using their services. So PayDotCom it is.
Hi Robert
As always you stray far and wide from the actual subject – ClickBank. PayDotCom is interesting also, but could almost deserve its own article.
Let’s keep potatoes from carrots so we can handle each theme with the care and attention it deserves. Is my opinion, but I admit I may be wrong… 🙂
ClickBank shouldn’t be so discriminating and their case-by-case estimates take TIME – the one thing a serious internet marketer can’t afford. Who the heck knows [pardon my french] whether CB is ready with their estimate if I have designed my launch for wednesday? What happens if they approve it early? Once the cat’s out of the bag it’s going to start running.
But do as you wish. You know best what you are willing to afford. You mention you only have refunds for 1% using PayPal but 7,5% using ClickBank. Being a bit facetious, I would rather suggest you give your faithful clients a 10% discount. We won’t ask for refunds.
PS: Don’t whine when you read this. You wanted our opinion, and I have given it to you. You make very different business decisions compared with previously. But if money speaks louder than faithful clients – who end up paying you EVEN MORE, well, it’s your choice. 😉
Hi Robert,
Hey man, nice explanation and follow up to the situation you faced. Glad to see that you understand the value of using multiple payment processors. I totally agree that you should use them as sales funnels.
Good work!!
Now I gotta get out there and promote some of your products…thanks for reminding me. Take it easy.
Jason Anderson
Hey Robert…
You’re not an idiot. Don’t know if you’re a genius. Sorry. But it’s resolved and both you and CB did it in the best and smartest way possible So it’s all cool.
7.5% refund rate plus Clickbank takes out more for fees, and LOTS of internet marketers buy using themselves as the affiliate once they see the order button is Clickbank.
Moving everything off PayPal onto Clickbank would be like cutting my profits in half.
Robert,
“Someone pointed out that when someone buys from you using PayDotCom, they get added to Mike Filsaime’s list as well. This is damn smart marketing on Filsaime’s part”
I’d call it something else and will cancel my Membership of PDC soon.
Thanks very much for the heads-up.
Staying with ClickBank depends on the hassle level, profitability and their responsiveness.
They have always been reachable but seem to be improving in that area.
I am glad you got this sorted.
Thanks
John Williams
Hey Planky,
Are you sure Mike captures the buyers emails? I have a hard time believing that.
I know that if people want to promote my PDC products they have to join PDC and thus go on Mike’s list.
But the other thing sounds far fetched to me, and would probably make me move my PDC products over to CB.
That’s easy, setup the Clickbank sales page in a folder like “clickbanktest” and give them that URL for review.
Once the product is approved you can move the payment button to your live site at any time…
They won’t add the site to the clickbank marketplace until you get a certain number of sales so as long as you don’t link to that test page you should be ok.
Robert,
I’d strongly suggest that you continue to leverage both Clickbank’s and PayDotCom’s marketplaces to grow your affiliate base with your front end products.
However, your long term plan should be to move your customers into your own affiliate system; where you can promote your back end products and cross sales through your own affiliate system. This reduces your exposure to other people’s anally retentive policies.
I use John Delavera’s Fantasos system to manage my business and it integrates nicely with Clickbank, 2Checkout and other merchants.
Take care
John
I know you really had a little battle there with clickbank and were really torn on which way to go with your dilema… because of clickbanks popularity it is nice to hear that you settled your issues with them, and came to a resolution.
Thank you for all your products again, you definately inspire me on mine.
Tim
This post is long overdue. You truly do have free advice that is worth stealing. Thank you for all that marvelous intelligence you are continually and breezily dazzling us with.
Your commenters have got smarts, too! Nice group to hang out with.
Sorry, I’ve made the correction.
A commenter (Nonny) pointed out that Mike has access to our buyer lists, and knows which products sell the best.
I misread what he said. Mike doesn’t add your customers to any of his lists.
Personally I love PDC as an affiliate and as a seller. My biggest beef with Clickbank is that they just seem to refuse to move out of the Dark Ages and pay commissions via PayPal.
Cheques (or as you Yanks spell it “checks”) might be all very well if you live in the US, but when they have to be negotiated elsewhere in the world then they attract all sorts of additional fees and charges to process. Clickbank argue “security issues”, but hey, Google pays by PayPal, and also the vast majority of other sites. I find this to be a lame duck excuse from Clickbank and I avoid them where I can.
Cheers,
Clickbank recently added direct deposit (ACH and XACH) last month.
As you say, Robert, CB is indeed sending payments via direct bank transfer – even to outside the USA. Nearly 2 weeks ago I got 2 payments into my bank here in Australia (from Click Sales, by the way)… from 2 different CB accounts (2 nicknames).
Not all countries are on the list yet but presumably are coming.
Btw, thanks for sharing your story here.
Gary
PayDotCom does NOT at any point in the past present or future do anything with it’s vendors buyer data.
They are NOT PDC customers. Just as 1shoppingcart, we only supply reports to the Vendor to use the data has he sees fit.
It would be totally unethical for any company that provides a service to use the data of it’s sellers for it’s own use.
Possibly illegal.
Thanks,
Mike Filsaime
PS – Rob, in about 60 days, we will have an option to [x] check on if you want to go from your pay button right to paypal and pass the recap page.
Thanks
Mike Filsaime
“7.5% refund rate plus Clickbank takes out more for fees, and LOTS of internet marketers buy using themselves as the affiliate once they see the order button is Clickbank.
Moving everything off PayPal onto Clickbank would be like cutting my profits in half.”
Exactly the point that so many marketers that dive into using services like Clickbank miss out on. For most products the ‘affiliate army’ argument is a myth and really all you’re doing is giving a great chunk of your profit (and control) to Clickbank for little to nothing in return.
Mike, that’s GREAT news. That was one of the last things holding me back. After I have everything setup on Clickbank I’ll have to start adding to PayDotCom.
Hi –
As an affiliate of your “WordPress on Crack” product, I am having big issues with Clickbank and am going to the post from my site because Clickbank is not working properly.
Two things are happening:
1. There is no image showing up at the bottom of the sales page for the user to click on.
2. If the user clicks on the link where you can see an image is suppose to be, I get this error:
Site error: the file /home/clickthr/public_html/click3vault/dlg/sell.php requires the ionCube PHP Loader ioncube_loader_lin_4.4.so to be installed by the site administrator.
I personally have never had any luck with Clickbank – and will not continue to use them. For whatever reason, no sales are ever recorded, even though I am selling lots of products via other affiliate programs. If you change your affiliate provider, please let me know. Right now I feel like I am not getting the commissions I have earned and it’s a bit frustrating 😉
Great product btw. Keep creating!
That site you’re promoting isn’t my site, that’s one of my resale rights buyers.
His download link doesn’t work, that’s his mistake not Clickbank’s. Here is my URL if you want to promote a working link for that product: http://www.wordpressoncrack.com/affiliates
I also offer a $247 upsell on that page, so when you promote you get $48.50 commission and the possibility of a $123.50 commission.
Awesome. Thank you for the help.
I updated my link, and actually just purchased your product.
Thanks – Scott
Glad you got it worked out, Robert. 🙂
BTW, looks like I’m going to need hire a programmer to help me on a small bit of WP automation. If you’d be interested in learning the details, shoot me an email.
Thanks.
Cool!
Now that you actually have the product you could spend 5 minutes recording a Camtasia video with your review (Camtasia has a 30-day trial period if you don’t have it.)
And heck, if you were to write a good quality article with your own unique take on the WordPress on Crack product, I would mail it to my list… with your affiliate link embedded.
Also, today I added a pop-up and 125-part follow-up series to that sales letter. (It sends them more information about every 5 days… for the next 18 months or so… until they either unsubscribe or decide to buy.)
If you send someone to that site and they opt-in, it will tag you as the affiliate and you will get credit. Every followup email for that course will contain your affiliate ID.
Even if they wait 6 months to buy, the order link they click on in 6 months will still be YOUR affiliate link and you will still get credit.
Notice I never wrote what you should “interpret as”: “Moving everything off PayPal onto Clickbank would be like cutting my profits in half.”
Au contraire. I reminded you that you only had 1% refunds with PayPal compared with 7,5% using ClickBank.
I won’t comment your thoughts about people replacing the links with their own affiliate-links. If people are so poor they have to STEAL to make a living, it’s short-sighted.
I am a BUYER, and I intend to remain one as long as you release the best products – even if I have to use ClickBank… 🙂
Robert,
In reading your comments about ClickBank and PayPal, I thought of another product for you.
You need to put out an information product like “Fast Food Copywriting” (I own it) that explains how to get a 1% return rate with PayPal,and how to deal successfully with PayPal. Unless you can afford a real merchant account, they are the only game in town. Yet I have known dozens of people who have been victimized by PayPal and have even filed lawsuits against them.
It would be a great service to your clients and a money maker for you. PayPal may even want to cooperate.
Mike
YES your an idiot!
Though you also are a genius when it comes to marketing your software and in turn helping others make large amounts of money using them.
PayDotCom VS ClickBank I agree with John Taylor above when he talked about using PDC as another resource then tie into your own affiliate system.
The more places you get your products, message, articles or whatever the more chances you give people to get into your funnel and you expand your audience/buyer base because believe it or not there are people out there that still never heard of ClickBank or PDC.
Use your front end products and get them out there to as many places as you can. That’s my 2 cents.
– Terry
The one thing a serious internet marketer can’t afford. Who the heck knows [pardon my french] whether CB is ready with their estimate if I have designed my launch for wednesday? What happens if they approve it early? Once the cat’s out of the bag it’s going to start running.
Mika
http://www.crackcocaineaddictiontreatment.com
i want to promote 20 or more products on clickbank
but only one landing page.
I tried your php script but nothing happened,i am new to internet.i understand some parts of script but not all please could you help.
Hi
I’m afraid this is off-topic on the Clickbank discussion. I am just looking for help setting up PaySensor on my site. I have two problems:
1. I have set up and got working the ‘marketplace’ on my ipn.php file with several products. All works ok including making a purchase. But, when I copy the product data into the marketplace.php template none of the products show up. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?
2. I would like to create links to individual products so visitors don’t have to go to the marketplace to buy an individual item. How do I create a link to an individual product?
Thanks in advance.
Nigel
Personally I would not trust Mike Filesaime at all and I would never do business with him. Past experience has shown that his methods are extremely unethical and dishonest. Beware!
Click Bank was already a great company, but I’m not a professional in this field Why do I have to do