Am I Evil For Working At a Day Job?
My question to you today is: does working at a day job make me evil?
I have been balancing the day job and internet marketing thing for years. It's not that bad. I'm getting my first 3-5 year computer programming job on my resume, lots of free training that would otherwise cost $5000, really good health insurance, and a reason to get up in the morning.
I don't always work 9-to-5 hours. Some days I work 6AM to 2:30PM, or 10AM to 6:30PM. It's also not the most challenging job. I don't have to work overtime, I'm not on-call, I don't take my work home. So I'm free to do internet marketing stuff after work, during lunch, and on weekends.
Quick Story:
Sometimes I forget to pick up my paycheck at my day job. Last month when I went to the receptionist to pick it up, one of my co-workers, a really cool woman in her 40's, noticed I'd taken a while to pick up my check.
She commented, "Someone else must be making those Mustang car payments..."
I told her nope, I pay for my car, but I wasn't making payments on the car... I bought it for $20,000 in cash last year.
She was surprised. I shrugged and said I'd saved up some money. I forgot to add that I own a home at age 24, or that I pay double into my principal every month.
I also kept quiet the fact that I'd launched a product the night before, and made more in 90 minutes than she made in 30 days.
How about the fact that I dropped two months worth of pay at that job for a one week vacation in Hawaii during the winter break?
No one at work knows my secret, that I make more than my boss, his boss, and his boss. Out of 800+ employees at my place of work, the only people who take home more money than me are the president and his 10 vice presidents.
When do you think I should quit?
When I have a year's worth of income in savings? Don't give me that, "Quit when your internet job has replaced your day job" line. I did that years ago.
I'm not going to be one of those guys who quits without health insurance. When did you quit and do you have health insurance? Who is your provider?
Once you lost that "time crunch" to get back to your day job, did it kill your productivity?
I am completely lost here... I had planned on being self employed right out of college but this REALLY nice and easy day job fell into my lap. Some days it keeps my busy, some days I get bored and wish I could take a road trip or something.
Stay or quit? Please tell me in the comment box below. If I don't get ten replies maybe I'll just quit regardless.
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If keeping your day job makes you happy and keeps your brain active, why quit?
It is what you want and what is best for your family.
Unfortunately we humans will always find something to bitch about.
You will never be able to please all the people all of the time so why quit your day job?
Keep up the good work.
Good health!
Chris
Quit, quit, quit and don’t look back.
Imagine 40 hours more a week on your business, you’ll make a hell of a lot more than your current job, be able to afford even better medical insurance and given the increase in your business soon be overtaking the President of your former company.
The sooner you leave the sooner you will be your own boss.
Want to work 16 hous straight on a project on a Tuesday?
Now you can.
Want to take a road trip at the drop of a hat?
Now you can.
Want to fly across the world on a 6 week tour without asking for anyones permission (which lets face it would be denied to you in your curremt job)?
Now you can.
Want to network with other marketers and setup quick, profitable JVs, 9-5 during the week when marketers are most likely to answer their phone without having to look over your shoulder at work?
Now you can
This is a total no-brainer. Period.
I did it 5 years ago, don’t wait another minute. Draft that resignation letter immediately and hand it in to the CEO tomorrow.
Don’t even agree to work that 4-6 week ending time period.
Take the bull by the horns Robert.
It’s time to quit, Robert.
I make a lot less than you with my I.M. ventures and still managed to get my own individual health plan via BCBS after quitting 3 months ago.
Sure, my deductibles are higher than what they were when I was on the group plan, but then again, if I was making as much with I.M. as what the company president was making, affording the lowest deductibles offered would be no problem.
Robert,
Play it safe. Stay with the job but at just enough hours to keep you qualified as a full time employee. That way you still receive full benefits but not pay. In your case it’s not the pay, it’s the benefits and you are a wise young man to be thinking of the future that way. In fact, that is my goal, make enough money to go 3/4 time and still retain full benefits within my job and not worry about the net paycheck.
Jim
I couldn’t wait to quit my J.O.B. and as soon as I made my first $4000/month I did.
Would I do it again if I had it over?
Probably not.
If you like what you are doing… keep doing it.
Sometimes internet marketing makes you lazy and I’m the perfect example ;-).
Keep up the awesome work.
Sincerely,
Paul Kleinmeulman
Australia
I was in an IT position in Corporate America for 23 years. I just left this past July. It was the most freeing experience of my life and also one of the scariest.
Like Chris said above, if your day job makes you happy and keeps your brain satisfied, don’t quit. But I’m betting that you’d like to spend that time doing other things.
I tend to be a little on the conservative side, but my advice would be to have:
– two years of salary in the bank (since you’re monthly profit is so high now, you may already have that)
– a nice chunk of change stashed away in your 401k (at least $40-50k if you’ve been funding it for a few years from your job) If you were older than 24, I’d recommend having a lot more than that.
– some good health and dental insurance lined up (especially if you have a family to support)
I would imagine that financially you’re in pretty good shape. If you’re extremely confident that you can keep your Internet-based income at or above your current level, I don’t see any reason, other than the points I laid out above, why you couldn’t tell the boss “See ya” today! Most likely, once you quit and pour yourself into your Internet business, your income will double or triple anyway so you are in an envious position young man. Savor the flavor!
I wish you nothing but the best.
A happy customer,
Dave
Robert,
Here are my thoughts…
The last thing you want to do is hang on to a job because of health insurance.
If you put the time you spend at your job into your own business, you would make more than enough to pay for that on your own.
…AND…
You’d be building YOUR business and not someone else’s.
The other thing I would say is it’s always easier to take a risk (if you would call it that now that your business is doing well) when you are younger.
As soon as you get a little older and start a family your responsibilities change and your willingness to “go for it” diminishes greatly because you have others to think about.
I say DO IT and don’t look back.
Just don’t get lazy!
All the best.
Stu
If your happy keep the job, waking up with something to do that keeps you motivated isn’t the worst problem in the world to have. If my day job didn’t get up and leave me, I’d probably still be there enjoying company paid for health benefits.
When your job stops being fun, its time to get out. Or maybe your IM ventures can be the start of having your own company and staff.
Either way you go, Keeping it or Dumping it, best of luck to ya.
Hi Robert,
I’ve been a subscriber of yours for the past few months (maybe a little longer, but just in 08)and have to say I really enjoy getting your messages- product updates or information (I’m also a customer! :-)).
I honestly think the IM world needs more marketers like yourself.
Staying at a job for health insurance when you can afford to purchase it on your own (I’m about 2 hours from you in the East Bay and pay for my own health care….and I’m older! So yours would be cheaper….), isn’t a good reason to stay at a job.
And just to be a little trite here- Life is TOO short! I lost my husband at 32 in a car accident (5 years ago) and I can guarantee you he would’ve traded everyday at his job to do something he was great at (and we didn’t pay ANYTHING for health benefits….for a family of 4!)and earned a great living doing.
Take the ball and run with it…..
Looking forward to hearing the outcome….whatever you choose.
All the best,
Kim
I think keeping the regular job and doing the im stuff is a good combination 🙂 It’s different, it’s varied, I’m myself used to it.
Marian
I’m facing this same decision (or hope to be facing it soon, actually). Here’s the decision I’ve reached and I offer it to you for what it’s worth:
Quit your day job when the cash-stream from your non-day activities is (a) at least 1.5 times your day-job cash-stream, and (b) it’s been at that level for at least 15 months. [[NOTE: That last word was “months” not “minutes.”]]
Bill
Heh.
Now, I know something about Robert’s job.
In fact, it may be that he knows how much the “President” and “Vice Presidents” makes is because I told him where to look. (Where I ALSO found out how much Robert makes — but, LOL — I’ve forgotten. I’ve even forgotten the url, though it was somewhere on the Sacramento Bee site.)
It’s about balance.
I think the “job” gives you some things you like — and it’s not just the health insurance.
When you find that you have enough burning projects that you want to do, that you don’t have time for otherwise — then quit.
There’s something to be said for the comraderie of work– going in and talking to the people — people that you know that you will see and talk with most days.
So, people can say what you should and shouldn’t do — but it’s only you who will know what things you truely appreciate about having your job and going to work.
As one of the other commenters pointed out — the external structure has a benefit, too. Keeping that structure can be beneficial, and can help you keep your life balanced between “work” and “not work”.
In the meantime, I’ve started a pool on Willie’s private forum to guess when you hit millionaire status, LOL.
Live JoyFully!
Judy Kettenhofen, Profit Strategist/Copywriter
NextDay Copy
Robert,
Quit ASAP. That which doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Take some yoga, relax, do more IM and make more.
I had my first child last week and will be independent soon. The idea of waking up and playing with her whenever I want are too tempting.
“Should you quit your day job”?
I havn’t heard you sing 🙂
Shaz
AKA
Roberta Twig
Hi Robert,
I was listening to a Perry Marshall CD the other day and Perry interviewed a CEO named Tom Hoobyar. Tom stated that he makes big decisions this way; with his mind, with his heart and the feeling he gets in his midsection. He rates each area on a scale of one to five, with five being the best. If all three areas don’t reach a three or more it’s a no go.
Also, if it were me, aside from the money, if I really enjoy the people I work with, I would think a little harder about leaving. If that’s a non-factor it just makes the decision a little easier for you.
Good luck, gotta go…forgot about my Hamburger Helper, it’s burning.
Robert,
You, like any other person who is the very best at what they do, will do as you see fit. It’s a moot point.
Asking your readers if you should quit provides a thin excuse to say out loud to your loyal readers what you didn’t brag about to your co-worker, “a really cool woman in her 40’s”
The kicker is, it doesn’t matter.
It’s your blog-and your life. You can (and will) do as you like. I have no beef with it.
Of course I’ll keep reading the blog.
Of course I’ll buy your stuff. (It is, after all,the best)
That’s what’s best for me. You do what’s best for you.
It ain’t bragging if you can actually do it, right?
An interesting dilemma.
I think the telling comment was the training you’ve gotten. It may be much more difficult for you to push yourself to continue to grow your skills on your own. You know yourself better than anyone.
If your IM income is too comfortable, it’s an easy thing to start kicking back and slacking off too much.
So, here’s my two cents. Put your extra money to work generating passive income. Once your passive income pays your mortgage and regular bills quit if you feel like it.
We are part way into a recession. Keep working and saving. Once we are pretty close to the bottom (probably late 2009 early 2010) buy a few houses or townhomes. Pay a rental company to manage them for you. There’s your cash flow for the rest of your life.
Quit your job once your house is paid for.
And don’t worry about putting money into a 401K. Obama’s minions are talking about absconding with those anyway. After tax investments are better in many ways anyway. By the time you’re retirement age, you’ll be in the highest tax bracket anyway so you won’t save anything by deferring your taxes.
I know, it all sounds silly.
Really, you probably shouldn’t listen to any of us. Ted makes a good point. Tom Hoobyar is a really smart successful guy. I think his advice is sound.
Stay at your day job if you’re getting something out of it other than the paycheck. I find that my work as a family doctor (my day job) and interaction with my patients and colleagues gives me new ideas for products and marketing strategies that I’d miss if I was holed up in my home office all day long. I also like the variety – splitting time between working with others in an office and on my own from home. For me, full time at either would be a drag.
If you feel like you’re not getting anything meaningful out of your day job – not learning new things, not enjoying the social interaction, wishing you were somewhere else – then by all means now is a great time to ditch it and either just work on your IM business or find another day job that would be more interesting & fulfilling.
Life is too short to just “put in the hours” at anything. If you’re lucky enough to have the financial freedom to quit doing something you dislike, do it.
Andrew
Robert,
Go with your heart and instinct don’t let the brain get in the way if it doesn’t cause analysis paralysis it will burnup your most important and valuable asset – TIME
Keep up the good work and keep smiling
Self Help Master
http://www.CreatesPersonalGrowth.com
Keep your day job, send me the checks and I’ll quit looking for a day job! 🙂
Do what makes you happy Robert. I was shocked to see that you even had a job! I’ve seen your successes for years through your newsletters and Warrior forum, but hey if working makes you happy do it.
Personally I would quit, in fact I did a couple years ago, regrets? yeah some, but I haven’t had anything near your success..
Robert,
Now is the time. focus on IM. You hv the talent and you know many big guns. Whatever time that’s left or you can spare, use it to help out this world.
You can teach stuff related to computer…like programming…whatever it is..to less fortuate people…life is also about giving.
So when to quit? the answer is NOW!
Hi Robert,
Take a coin, decide which side is quit the job or stay. Toss it in the air – and before it comes down you will know which side you prefer is up…
Good luck.
Hi Robert,
I say go for it.
There’s never a right and wrong or best time.
We make our own choices and success.
You could always go back to the workforce but remember…
You only live once.
Take care.
Ewen
Ok this appears to be a no brainer AND a foregone conclusion.
Go full time on your OWN business.
The extra time you’ll have to spend working on it means it won’t be long before your income exceeds the combined income of your president and his 10 VPs.
The danger is if with all that extra time to work on your projects is if Parkinson’s Law starts to kick in. But I don’t think you’ll ever suffer from that based on your track record.
Good luck,
Ed.
PS. Robert, I think you knew the answer to this ‘dilemma’ before posting this blog post. Love your style! 🙂
I think you should stay. I work online and love it, but I miss the social part of having a day job 🙂
Don’t quit your day job so that you have more time to spend on your business.
Build like a business, scale up efficiently (employees) and then quit so you have lots of free time.
Also ensure someone high up at your company knows about your other work. Check your employment contract etc as IP issues are a pain. Get legal advice.
Hi guys gals stay@home fans one n’all … I say quit your day job there must be so many out of work folks who could fill your vacancy so move over give some one else a chance at your day job just feel very happy you have choices, one thing you will learn as you get older? life is all about choices as in good and bad! with this choice of yours its heads up you win with heads down you win too life was never meant to be a struggle … I’m really happy for you that you’ve cracked the internet earning code now share that success with any one who follows you win win win.
All my best to you and your succes
Phillip Skinner
I think Stu Mc Claren said it best! Why build another persons business when you could be building your own.
Spend an extra 40 hours a week at marketing your own products (or building new ones) and you will never look back.
Just my ha’penny worth 🙂
Hi Robert,
I recently left a job for a major blue-chip corp. I obviously worked in a team, but the team of originally 25 was whittled down, re-organised, re-structured, and re-deployed, leaving me alone in the UK, and the other members of my team dotted around 3 or 4 offices in mainland Europe.
It was lonely, even though I worked in the office section of a factory employing 1500-200 people.
Now, I work for another blue-chip, but I work WITH people, and I’m loving it. It’s made me realise that no matter how well I do in IM, I want to be working physically with people, bouncing ideas, working together on projects etc.
From what I’ve seen so far, IM is a lonely job for most people.
That kind of thing might be worth thinking about.
Regards,
Andy
Why quit?
If it makes you happy, stay.
But don’t count on noone finding out your “secret” sooner or later. IF they start wondering the first place they would go would be Google, and I don’t have to tell you where you are placed, do I?
Regardless, it’s none of their business. As long as you’re happy, stay. When you should quit is something only YOU know, and when the time is right, you won’t have any doubts or second thoughts…
Carpe diem. 🙂
It all depends on whether or not you enjoy your job Robert. If you hate it then quit, else stay until such time you are certain you are financially secure. Working for yourself can be a lonely life and meeting people and getting a different perspective on things can help you retain a balanced outlook.
One thing I would warn about is overdoing things. I found this out the hard way many years ago.
Robert,
Do you like your job?
What does it do for you?
Working because you like too
is different than working
because you have too.
Would they be flexible with
your hours, instead of
quitting?
Terence, those words are SO VERY TRUE. 🙂
It IS important to get fresh input, but loneliness will never happen for Robert. We are so many faithful readers that leave comments that Robert is sure to have company.
At least as long as the blog is as good as it is. Quality ruleZ 😉
I know the secret reason why Robert works a day job… he likes the social aspect of it. The health insurance is just an excuse. He just doesn’t know what he would do if he didn’t have a network of people to personally interact with on a daily basis.
It’s a major problem. I sometimes go days locked in my little office, addicted to work, only leaving for 10 minutes a day to go to the store. And even that is hard for me to do. My girlfriend hates it.
This day job thing is just an excuse to stay in his comfort zone. 🙂
-Jason
P.S. When I was a warehouse manager for a flooring outlet, I would sometimes wait until I had 3-4 paychecks piled up before I cashed them (we got paid ever two weeks). My co-workers would say “Must be nice to save your checks”. But they didn’t realize I was putting all my money to my dream (music studio) and that I wasn’t buying any new clothes, going out and partying on the weekends, and pretty much saving every single penny I had to invest, while they were spending like drunken sailors.
No suprise they’re all still working those dead-end jobs!
Set a goal to be financially independent! What does that mean?
Define a lifestyle that really excites you (i.e. a week’s vacation every 6 weeks in some other part of the world) and build an interest-bearing asset structure to completely subsidize that lifestyle. That way, you feel no pressure to maintain that lifestyle.
What kind of interest-bearing instruments should you focus on? Email me.
How interesting – coroporate America issues checks? To professional employees still? Basically in Australia all pay has been direct credited for probably the 15 years – 20 years for professinals – I don’t think I’ve had a physical paycheck since I graduated in 1983!
The other interesting thing is that you would acutally want to keep on working – my guess is that’s its the social side of things. Forget the insurance – just start a saving fund and self-insure – you’re young enough to do it easily now
DONT QUIT!
first let my tell a little about myself… I am self-employed and have always be so…
Your ‘day job” offer some unique challenges.. and good benefits..
This question is one I get asked all the time… you need to decide can I do without the benefits.. (medical insurance) you may not need it now but you will in the future.. will I earn enough self-employed to buy my own policy.. maybe-may-not…
are you of the mind set that can ride the roller coaster of fluctuating income, more importantly… how does your girl friend feel about this… most women in the USA are not able to deal with this… they are taught from the moment they shoot out of the womb, that one day they will find a guy, and he will take care of them with a “real job” … most importantly what does her family think about you quiting you day job? especially Mom….
Her opinion counts more then you know….
Now it is true you have done well, working freelance.. but once you become self- employed the dynamics chance.. it then becomes all up to you to produce, no longer do you have income, just because you breathe air… your income is dependent upon your performance and the products you create… and how well they sell…
I mere fact that you are asking the question, tells me it not time… if it were time you would have already done it! This come from 40 years of experience…
Joe
Robert,
as the person who managed to outplank you, i’m going to take the liberty to tell you…
Don’t quit your day job! (then again, I wouldn’t want your boss or coworkers to find this blog post and blow your cover…)
If you are able to continue doing what you are doing until your house is free and clear with no mortgage, you will be much better off…
and the perks of health insurance and 401k and all and matching SS Payments help too…
and it gives you a certain level of levelheadedness to remember that most people don’t make $10,000 from a 30 second fast food email 🙂
If you want to build business credit for your corporation (and get computer equipment and any other equipment you might need), it would be my honor to coach you for free- Just drop me a line! And even if you are rolling in dough and don’t think you need business credit, it’s still a good idea to make sure your D&B File and Score are in great shape so you could access them if you ever needed to.. like to furnish an office with 10 brand new computers and office furniture and all.. without laying out a penny or putting Robert Plank personally on the line…
Paydex
P.S. Next time you respond to a post of mine and use it as a springboard for another post, you’d better give me a plug or else i’ll never comment on a blog, any blog(!), ever ever again.
😀
Hi Robert, keep the job because you have something to be doing with your whole day you would be surprised how empty your life could get when you find that you really do not have to wake up to get to work.
I don’t think you are evil though for working at your day job, you have a lot of good products in the market and I am sure even if you decided to not do anything you could still earn a lot of good money from those
Gee Robert I don’t know…
Last time someone asked me that I said quit. Now I get emails from him all the time. Some guy named Mike Filsaime.
It seems like forever ago Mike emailed his list and asked this question. I did reply. But Mike was worked an ungodly number of hours – something like 60-70 a week plus commuting plus making more in his “side business” than his auto dealer sales manager position paid. He eventually did quit and now… well you know.
So does this apply to you? I dunno. Paydex makes a valid point about hanging on until your house is paid off. That may be a good benchmark because at that point you don’t have to worry so much about ending up in the streets.
As far as health insurance and other perks, you’ll have to ask yourself what’s the real cost?
If you make $75 an hour at work plus a health plan worth $20000 a year and maybe another $20000 in other benefits – it works out to about $190,000 per year or about $760 per day (figuring 5 days a week 50 weeks a year).
How many hours of work would it take you to replace that income? Subtract the number of hours per week you’d need to work to match or exceed this from 40 and you have the real cost of your job.
Once you get to be my age (sooner if you’re as smart as I think you are) you’ll realize time is much more valuable than dollars.
God bless,
Andy
I have been on both sides, if one is able to Not have a day job and be at the mercy of those who would benefit from his or her labor they should. All working a day job does is help your employer to gain more money than they will ever pay you.
Secondly, it allows for a complete laps in creativity and faith in oneself to hide in the comfort of some one else’ ability to help you get by instead of chasing the Great American Dream.
Long live capatilism, the employee mind set is just one step away from socialism. Who wants that?
Even if you have earn more than your day job, I think it will be good to stay with your day job until you have come out with a solid plan for your internet business. i.e how you want to expand and grow your business when you have plenty of time after quitting day job..
There is one word you left out of your question: coeds.
You apparently work at a university. And you don’t mention being married in your “about me” section.
There aren’t a lot of coeds at home.
So here’s what you might want to do. See if you can work part time. If insurance is a concern, incorporate and get some insurance that way. No, it won’t be as good.
But you’ll now have more time to mingle with the coeds.
If you were to work three days a week, that’s an extra 16 hours for mingling.
By the way, I retired two weeks ago…sort of forced myself to retire due to a disability from an old broken bone in my back. I didn’t want the last years of my life to be filled with more and more suffering.
Last week the income from my books was twice my day job! And my back feels much better.
But for you, it’s all about the coeds. 🙂
The best to you.
Kelley Eidem, author, The Doctor Who Cures Cancer
Together we can cure cancer – one person at a time!
Hi Robert –
I think you should just go for it but at the end of the day its how you feel about it.
I sure think that considering that you have built up such a reputation online that if you were to now transfer that same energy that you put in for your day job into your online business- Just think where you could be? Thats if you want to be there I guess.
Many times its the cosy feeling of a job and its perks that make you feel that you should stay in the day job.
I on the other hand never ever had a day job as such since leaving school but had a bricks and mortar business in retails for 25 years – Built the business and one day woke up and I did not want to do it anymore.
I just did not want to be that anymore. It sure was getting too comfortable just walking in – having 30 full time staff and a management structure in place with 1.8 Million Sterling in Sales.
There did not seem to be a challenge so I sold it 1 week later and started online 6 years ago and never looked back.
So for me it was getting too comfy I guess.
But each to their own and what makes you feel good.
I would never go back to a bricks and mortar business again, but still work offline if I needed to.
I think you have a fantastic online business that you could grow exponentially.
Best of luck – See you on the other side!
Take care
Hamant
I like a few themes I see in the comments: if you enjoy what you’re doing, stay; don’t stay for the benefits; consider the intangible benefits of the job.
But ask yourself the question: “Am I staying out of a misplaced sense of security?” If the answer is “yes,” get out now. You’ve demonstrated your ability to provide your own security and any such thoughts are simply holding you back.
Robert
It seems to me that if you were ready to quit, you would not be asking.
The previous comments include what sounds like some really good financial advice. It seems to boil down to setting a specific goal or benchmark (such as having your house paid for and having a certain amount of money in the bank), which you can always change if circumstances change. When you meet that goal (or goals), reassess how you feel and what you want.
No one knows for sure how long this recession will last, or how bad it will get. Assuring your financial future before you quit your job sounds like great advice. Only you can decide when you have enough saved. Two years salary sounds reasonable to me, but how long will the recession last? The one in the 1980s actually lasted several years (practically speaking–whether it did technically or not).
I also agree with the person who said to save up and buy houses or other properties at the depths of the recession. It’s not glamourous, but fortunes have been made that way.
Thanks for making that post and asking your list members to comment on it. Reading these comments has been interesting and enlightening.
Best wishes for whatever you decide!
There are huge benefits to that job besides the money and health insurance. You do realize one big reason you have had some success here is because of that job and what you have learned from it?
That’s right. Because you are out in the REAL WORLD, you get ideas and knowledge and experience that many people don’t get who are only exposed to internet marketing. You have the best of BOTH worlds!
Don’t for a minute think that job is holding you back, because the reality is…what you’ve learned there…and the wisdom of those you’ve worked with…are VERY valuable to your business. My gut says there are some great advantages to where you are right now.
It’s worked pretty well so far, hasn’t it? Stay focused and keep doing what you are doing. Don’t fall for the “grass is greener” thing, because you’ve got some nice green grass right under your feet.
Dear Robert,
First, I though: DON’T quit.
You are happy the way it is.
You are very successful.
You are enjoying life, enjoying both
of your work and have a operating basis
that works well for you.
Why would you want to change this?
Second, I was thinking:
“Yea, may be he should quit.”
Have more time for his family and
he would surely make more money.
But what?
Is money the most important thing in life?
May be the job he has give him something else
that money can’t buy.
He enjoy his work. And the best part of it:
He doesn’t HAVE to do it.
He can quit whenever he want.
I think this is real freedom.
So I go bouncing around with this 2 ideas.
And I don’t think I am the one to tell you what to do.
Nor anyone posting on this blog should tell you what you ought to be doing.
YOU know what to do. You know whether or not you are ready.
Look! You have a pretty successful life and most of the decision you took in the past were the good one (or you will not be where you are today.)
So my advice?
Don’t quit if you have doubt. If you don’t think this is the right move for you.
If you want to quit, do it.
But whatever you decide, don’t let anyone tell you, you did the wrong thing.
That’s your call my friend.
I am sure you will be right.
To your success,
Jym
Jym Montfort
I’ve been in forced retirement for 5 years now. Being a paraplegic, and since I had 30 years with the company, they “laid” me off, and gave me a year’s salary as compensation. With that, and the cash out of the retirement fund they let me pull, I set up an IRA account. Between that, and Social Security Disability, my life has been middling good, except for the enormous cost of medical insurance. Even with Medicare, it’s costing me over $300 a month plus medications, plus wife’s health insurance, and I still have to pay 20% of any costs, and all the co-pays.
Life’s hell when you’re old and not well. Stick with the day job, save your money, get a VERY big account somewhere and invest in gold. You might be able to survive even in today’s economy.
Gene
Personally Andy, I don’t believe that when one quits a day job they end up giving those hours to their own business. it’s more then likely most of those hours get eaten up through sleep, playing othello, and other non-php related things.
I’d also like a post from PhPlank on how his resale rights did, and if it helped him or hurt him…
Quit the day job when you achieve the following:
1) Cash in hand to cover 1 yr living expense.
2) Your house is paid for.
and / or
The stress from the job is restricting you ability to continue with your “Side Business”
Stay with the day job for as long as you can stand it…then it can always be said of you “PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS.”
You know what, Robert? You’re talking about health insurance, but have you considered seeking high quality health care outside the United States of America? There are other countries with excellent care that cost considerably less for that care.
What’s that got to do with your “stay or go” decision? Sometimes I think that the coolest thing in the world would be to travel to another country, take a vacation, get routine health care needs met while there, and then STILL end up spending less than it would cost for the whole trip including the hotel bills and fun times had you spent the money on health care in the USA.
And guess what? You can’t do that on a J.O.B. working for someone else in most cases.
I guess in a sense what you are asking is essentially, Is the glass half empty or half full?
If you are bored at your current job then perhaps that is your mind telling you that it is time to seek opportunities elsewhere. Sleepwalking through life is what boredom feels like when you stay bored for a prolonged period of time. But the thing about sleepwalking is, you miss out on a lot of things right under your nose because you do not see them.
Just my 4 cents (inflation!)
Quit now, if you have enough money to almost replace your day job. As far a health insurance, make sure that you get a very inexpensive plan. You are young and you are most likely very insurable.
The best plan for you, and almost everybody is the hsa or Health Savings Account plan. Take a few minutes to watch some videos on my blog. http://www.richdayhealthplans.com/blog Just search for the word video. You will see several that will explain the concept. Get a very high deductible plan…at least $5000. You will find it very affordable. Health insurance is regulated state by state. I cannot help you if you aren’t in NC, SC TN or GA.
Robert,
While I seem to have purchased quite a bit of stuff from you I have never posted a comment on your blog. I am subscribed to multiple lists for an array of your products, I come to your blog often enough to get in on your sales early if it is something that I am interested in.
Anyway, I think in this situation that you need to do pretty much whatever YOU want to!
You are the one that put yourself in the position to make this decision, well you and the people that matter most I would think…so ask them and then do what YOU and THEY want!
Thanks for all the cool stuff and good luck
Joel A. Gray
methinks blog readers should get first dibs on your products before you send it to the list!
so those that visit the blog oftenest (sp) get the best shot!
aye or nay?
All you commenters below me, comment on my comment or i’ll take up smoking three packs of Marlboro Reds a Day.
😀
Go for it when you’re ready Robert.
I made a big mistake a few years back jumping out of paid employment before I was ready. Thankfully, I do what I love now (training people) for the day job and am getting my online plans in gear at the same time.
Morale of the story is do what you love and love what you do. Don’t know if you’ve read a book from Jack Canfield called “The Success Principles” but it’s a great distillation of many personal development principles (best book I’ve read in the genre) and it puts things nicely into perspective.
All the best,
Tom
86 the J O B !
Just think of how much you could make devoting your full attention to your IM. Isn’t that what w all want to do anyway… Be our own boss and take vacations whenever we want to because our business pretty much runs on auto pilot.
In the end Robert, you have to follow what is in your heart. It may be a little scary to 86 the J O B but sometimes one has to do things outside of their comfort zone to realize they were not happy or satisfied in the first place.
All the best!
You are a great teacher, enjoy following your activities Bro!
Keep that job R.P. Be a genius and sock the extra cash in a diversified 401K or 403B (if you hang at a non-profit).
You’ll be laughing all the way to “real” millionaire land by the time you are 45.
Robert Said:
“and a reason to get up in the morning.”
—
Keep the Job.
Holy crap… look at all these replies… you guys are freaking awesome.
23 people said stay, 30 people said quit.
I followed Jorgen’s advice, and flipped a coin. Heads meant I quit, tails I stay. As it was in the air I visualized the coin landing on heads… and it did. But I’m still staying at the job for now 😛
Reasons to stay…
Girls: I’m not totally single, have a girlfriend of one year, and all the college chicks I dated were really immature. Chicks my own age who have already graduated are way better.
Keeps brain active: Very true. If I had more free time I would definitely spend it goofing off, not working on my business.
Health insurance: I’ll make sure to take advantage of all the medical care I can before I quit, then switch to a cheap single person plan with a high deductible.
Social interaction: I barely talk to people at work anyway, but if I quit I would have to get two accountability partners (probably Steven and Jason) so I would have people to talk to every day. Plus reconnect with my college buddies since I won’t be working regular hours.
Reasons to quit: It’s not always challenging, can’t take Rachel Rofe style road trips when I want, I always feel like I could use more free time, and I’m still young.
100% emotional reasons to quit, 100% logical reasons to stay.
I’ll quit, but winter is not exactly road trip weather and things are finally starting to pick up the pace at work.
Criteria for Quitting…
I can’t pay off my house anytime soon as some people suggested. Paying off works fine if your name is Paul Myers, you live in Pennsylvania and your house built in 1891 only cost $30k.
Half the reason I bought a house was so $1300 out of my $2500 monthly payments could be eaten up by interest. Tax writeoff!
But I did like the guy who said I needed two years of income in savings. That’s $60k for me and I’m over a third of the way there.
Cashflow needs to be 1.5 times day job for 15 months? I’ve been there for quite a while if you skip over December 2007. But since we’re following the rules here that means I can’t quit until March 2009 at the earliest.
I have no interest in dealing with the headache of buying and renting out a 2nd property, even if a property management company deals with it.
Investing in gold? Good luck if you can avoid the fees. Also, I had some of my stock money invested in gold mining companies and those dropped 75% in the last few months as other people took their money out.
So, my current escape plan is: $60K in savings, $5000 per month cashflow for 15 months, and be PHP5, Zend Framework, SQL Server 2005 and SharePoint 2007 certified so that I am still hireable if the full time thing doesn’t work out.
Robert-
I think you’ve generated advice from all over the spectrum, so I’ll keep my opinion to myself.
But, I can’t let this go…why is your paycheck not set up on direct deposit??
You sell needed products and when you ship them to your customers (I am one), they are well done, thorough and complete. From that point of view, you are providing products and what you do with your time is up to you.
On the one hand, if you enjoy what you do, and that is the ultimate if you work for someone else, you should not have any guilt.
On the other hand, if you spend the same time working for yourself, you are building your own business, not someone else’s.
I met a woman and married her some years ago. It drove her crazy because I worked for myself, despite a nice six-figure income that allowed me total freedom. She insisted I take a corporate position. As a consequence, I worked for ten years and brought millions of additional dollars into the coffers of my employer. Then one day, the “new” management came in one day and fired me and gave the incoming Prez my position. You NEVER have security when you work for someone else.
I went back to working my own hours and make even more than I could ever make working for someone else. I made a mistake. But since you know the odds and can force yourself to save rather than add to your lifestyle and (most often) indebtedness, then I would not rush out. But you should set a goal and live with it. And that includes a target date to leave. At the same time, considering the economy, it may be better to stay and save all you can before you leave. If things don’t get a hell of a lot better, a lot of employers will be closing and that could include your current employer.
Best wishes whatever you choose. It is a personal decision and only you can make that call. John Mauldin
Robert,
I was reading one of Ryan Allis’ articles on Zeromillion yesterday and it reminded me of this post. You’re in a really good position, but I wouldn’t quit my day job quite yet.
During the early stages of life (20-30 years old) one has an incredible advantage of being able to build a lot of wealth without having the high expenses of weddings, children, supporting a household, etc.
Take advantage of these years so that by the time you do reach 28 or 29 you will be so much ahead that you can turn one vacation now into 20 later one.
Just thought I’d share.
Dan
Ah Robert, take it from someone who is older than dirt and has ridden the tiger many times.
Be cautious about leaving an enviroment that has a lot of folks there before you learn about human nature and that means watching and learning from people’s successes and their mistakes.
Remember, you can get some really good lessons of life from not only smart people but also from those that just ‘don’t get it and never will.’
Watch how folks react to certain situations and then ask yourself, was that wise? Or should it have been done a different way?
The best thing about life experiences is that you don’t actually have to go through all of those things yourself because some folks will willingly teach you those lessons as you watch from the sidelines.
Learning has no timeline so when you’ve decided you’ve absorbed everything you can, THEN it’s time to head for the door.
🙂
Joe
This earlier post hit the nail right smack on the head:
———————————-
Paydex Score Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Personally Andy, I don’t believe that when one quits a day job they end up giving those hours to their own business. it’s more then likely most of those hours get eaten up through sleep, playing othello, and other non-php related things.
———————————-
They are RIGHT. Don’t change what you are doing right now.
Nu, Robert?
Tell us.. how many hours did you spend today/yesterday/this week on your side business? how many would you have spent if you didn’t have a day job?
If you enjoy the job and don’t regret the time you spend there versus having put it into your own business, why would you quit?
If you like having the security of the health insurance, the regular paycheque (even if it isn’t what you “could” make yourself), etc. don’t quit just because you think that’s what a “successful internet marketer” should do.
On the other hand, if there are days that you wake up and think “Man, I’ve got to go to that bloody place again today” it might be time to think about leaving 🙂
awaiting your next post…………… or sales email…….
(many times when i get your sales letter i run over to the blog to see if there have been any updates… and what happened to your chrontab fed updates to the blog?
don’t leave us hanging, plank!
I’ve struggled with this exact same thing. I work in an easy job for a telecom co.
I’ve been making a low 6 figure income online for more than 6 years now. It’s more than 5 times what I make at my job.
I also have to drive an hour each way to my job.
It sounds crazy but I’m scared I’m just not driven enough to work on it full time. I’m lazy to some degree as crazy as that sounds.
With all of this being said, Nov has been my slowest month in over 6 years…
Hi, Robert ,you should quit if you feel it is best for you, if you like the job stay, but do not trust that the system will be of any help to you.
I have worked different jobs for 33 years ,the contact i have had with the “system” have left me very disgusted, my value to them is zilch.
If i were you i would invest in real estate and silver/gold, and keep it a long way from the banks.
That’s only my humble opinion.
Hey Robert, I did a lesson covering this topic recently:
http://www.ericstips.com/tips/lesson18/
My inclination is to say your business is successful enough already for you to quit.
Health insurance is a cop out that a lot of people use because they’re afraid to quit. If you’re young and healthy, you can get just as good if not better insurance for a lower price on your own.
Hi Eric
Truer words have never been uttered. I think you’re spot on. In fact, this very thread proves that Robert has numerous faithful followers, and could easily sell enough to maintain a higher salary than having fun for a health insurance.
I still think that if Robert enjoys his job he should stay, but he should indeed stay for the right reasons instead of worrying about insurances.
Carpe diem. 🙂
Robert,
time to revisit the http://www.robertplank.com/daily-video-challenge/ post.
I started by listening, but slacked off…
🙁
I’ll try again-..and see if i can manage to stick to it!
🙂
paydex
Eric, I just watched the whole video. GREAT stuff. I love the wacka-chicka intro and outro music. Best takeaway: “Most successful entrepreneurs possess the ability to make profitable decisions based on a gut feeling.”
I’m going to make another blog post based on your advice.
Robert,
Its not fair. why should the president and his vice presidents make more then you??
ya need to work harder!
😀
Paydex
Well, if it gives you a reason to get out of bed in the morning maybe you just need the day job to give your life some structure. I’m the same way. I take a week’s vacation off and by day 2 I don’t know what year it is, the whole week goes by like a blur, and I accomplish squat.
Maybe you could negotiate a part-time-hours-with-benefits situation with your boss? All businesses are looking to save money right now. If you could get part time with health insurance, I’d stay if I were you. Part time with benefits isn’t unheard of, my local Verizon hires call center employees for part time work with benefits. Maybe that would give you more time to work on your own stuff, without robbing you of the structured day job you seem to feel you kind of need.
And, if your 40-something coworker is so cool, why are you being so selfish holding back? Geez, that poor woman. I’m 39 and barely make **mumble mumble** per hour. I wish I knew anyone who could teach me this stuff. I’m hit-or-miss learning it on my own.
By the way, I bought your product this morning, the memberships sites one, and I couldn’t download the video file. I got an Acrobat error. I wasn’t sure what your email address is for tech support? I could download the pdf/audio file just fine, but it would have been cool to have the videos too…
Cool, thanks man 🙂
There’s no reason to quit if you can juggle both, or if you can do justice to both. As for me, there was a time when I can’t stop thinking about my online business, even at work. I don’t think that I am being fair to my employer. Fortunately I was making enough to quit… so I quit.
I guess it’s your choice… if you can be fair to your employer who pays your salary (and health insurance) and deliver a good job at work, while still running your online business on the side, then keep the job, especially if you are happy with it.
But if your online business if interfering with your day job, or maybe the other way around, I think it’s time to re-think your options.
I don’t know… I guess my opinion is more on the ethical/moral side. 😉
80 Comments so far…
Let’s see you owe us at least 3 blog posts.
I know you have been bust with your Latest Product Launch… I bought it and found the ipod version very helpful in falling asleep :)*
Paydex
—
*- it was 4:00 A.M., but still.. I did fall asleep in the middle… but then again, maybe it’s because of my new baby girl… hmm….
Respond to this post or i’m never going to bed before 3 AM Again. 😉
Whoa…health insurance is NOT a cop-out. Let me tell you about that. I’m a young guy–have an internet biz ($5 million in 4 years of sales). I opted for a crappy policy early on. Last year, in perfect health otherwise, I had a pulmonary embolism from an accident where I was badly bruised earlier. You want to know how many hundreds of grand that ended up costing? And how much my lousy insurance covered? It stole my nest egg and then some.
One thing I can tell you coming from corporate America is that institutional health insurance is not bad! Wish I’d had it.
So it is a legitimate consideration.
And, you get more from that employment setting than you’d realize. I did. And it served me well in my own business. Robert has plenty of time, and I think the day job experience will help him down the road regardless of what he ultimately decides to do.
Chuck, what kind of policy did you have? I looked into a high deductible plan (from another poster’s advice) and at my age I can get a plan with a $4k annual deductible for $50 a month.
Chuck,
Really Great Post!
i went through something in a similar vein when trying to protect my assets by transferring them to an LLC cost me my life’s savings and then some.. after a tenant broke her TOE on my stoop when a LICENSED and INSURED repairman was doing work.
They call it “The School of Hard Knocks” For a Reason…
After everything that’s been said thus far, all I can say is…it’s nice to have choices.
Terry
Robert –
I think that if you keep making your excellent scripts and tutorials available your income is going be ever increasing.
A tipping point will occur and you will start doing product launches that will far exceed what you have already been doing.
I think you next batch of scrips should be some simple membership site scrips – I will be the first to buy.
Thanks for your great work!
Jack
Robert,
What do you WANT? It sounds & feels to me that you have some fear standing in the way of making a decision and feeling good about it.
Staying at the job is a decision. But evidently you’re not satisfied with the decision b/c you keep questioning it. Do you question it b/c you think you SHOULD leave and don’t WANT to? (e.g. afraid of internalized or external messages?)
Or do you want to leave, but are you afraid to?
Either way, as long as you don’t face the fear, you won’t be fully empowered. I’m not talking about asking why & analyzing (trying to figure out what you’re afraid of and why). I’m talking about taking action with the fear the same way you take action with the internet marketing. Just face it. Acknowledge that it’s there and turn around and stand up to it.
I’ve learned to do lucid dreaming sometimes. When I’m able to do it, I remember in a bad dream to turn around and FACE the big, scary monster that’s attacking me. As long as I keep running away or trying to get out of its clutches, the monster remains big & strong & life-threatening. The second I stop running and face it head-on, looking into its eyes, it changes. It might become small and run away, or it might disappear altogether, or I might wake up. Whatever happens, the monster is no longer scary & threatening. It’s not even real. It’s just an emotion.
I stop giving it my power. When I take all my power back, I can fly.
You can fly, Robert. No one else can tell you how. You are the only one who knows. Go for it!
Liz
Don’t quit your job!
I made that mistake. I was working full-time as a PHP programmer and after a few months I noticed I was becoming so efficient that I started taking on night jobs too – because I could complete them quickly.
After I quit my job I noticed that I was getting slower – lack of regular practice. I spent more time on server administration, marketing, market research and anything BUT programming.
In short, the job keeps you sharp.
Hey …
I was scarfing up your content, Robert, when I ran into the reference to Tom Hoobyar.
I know Tom, but not well.
He lives up the road a piece from me (last I checked, anyway — since he’s lived in the same place for many years, not sure he’s moved…)
He also has been known for starting a “brand” of NLP study groups (forget the name now — but that’s how I ran into him — I attended one or two of them at his house.)
And that’s what I’d like to say — trusting your gut is only wise if you’ve developed a good relationship with your gut and and you know the gut will provide you with reliable information.
It’s a very NLP/hypnosis-related sort of thing. In hypnosis, we call it unconscious signal systems.
Simply “going with your gut” because someone says it works for them is like saying you can solve your relationship problems by doing x, y, z (general advice) — without understanding the specifics.
However — the neuropsychologists have some interesting things to say about our ability to make decisions based upon “feelings” — which, as far as I know — are mostly “gut” feelings.
@Robert – “Work is the enemy of free time.” I think Ricardo Semler (author of “Maverick”) said that and he still kinda plays at working…!
What’s your definition of work?
Good luck with the certs (now there’s a market!)
Post #88 hits the nail on the head!
Hi Robert,
First of all, congrats for this blog, I just read about 12 entries, I´m extremely impressed about your content, keep doing this work and great thing will keep coming 🙂
I know you in person and we already discussed this subject in person, but I can tell you a great advice here man, I´ve been in your shoes.
Let me tell you my story in as less word as I can:
I worked for an internet company for 4 years, I had a great work, great treat, great income, I was learning a bunch of stuff about internet marketing that help to get where I am today, I was very happy with my work, I was growing, I had flexibility on times, many great things…
I couldnt let go the work even do I was making an extra income with some Internet Marketing stuff, because all of that…
Than I set my own goal, when I can do X amount of money on the outside buisness (IM) I will quit this job, and work on this full time.
Guess what?
That never happend and years kept going.
I was very fortunate on what happend next.
THe company was sold to another internet company, one of the largest japanese internet companies, actually the 2nd one after yahoo Japan.
Everything went down, My growth on the company inmeditly stopped, the learining as well, everything I liked about the medium company stop, It was not fun anymore, even do I was still doing a good income I wasnt neither motivated or excited anymore, so after a few months I quit my job, not because the IM side biz was doing good, because Iw as looking for soemthign else that will make me happy, then I took another Job that was a HUGE mistake, I only last 3 months in a job that was full of false promises and was all BS.
Everything right here sound very scary I was in the middle of nowhere, with nothing on my hands, no job, no IM side biz, no nothing.
But I told myself ok so here is my chance to start give a REAL shot to my IM stuff, I had enought money saved on my bank account to last 3 months with out getting another job, so I setup that 3 months deadline and worked my ass out to really try to figure out what can I do if I dedicate not only my full tiem, but my full energy to this IM thing.
What happend?
You know…
I´m doing great! better than I ever imagined!
What I figure out after all this experince?
All the ilussion of the safety job, and check every 15 days on my hands keep my blinded of the real opportunity.
I always tought that I can do both things at the same time and evetually replace my job for full time IM when the money from IM will justify that action.
The real truth is that when you have the talent and knowledge and you work hard, you know it, and grea thing will ocure!
The thing is that is not really only about the hours you will be able to dedicate to IM if you quit your job, is about the amount of energy you will have available for this.
Believe me Robert, I know you, I know how much talent and knwledge you have, I cant find another way to convicne you to quit tomorrow to your job and dedicate all that energy on the IM business!
Anyhow Its great to keep in touch with you and again your blog is amazing I love the content.
Warm reagrds from Mexico
Dan
Hey Dan, good to hear from you!
That is exactly what I am going through. I have been doing IM plus the day job for so long that I can’t tell anymore if my productivity will drop when I quit.
Plus, like you, I learn lots of cool new things at the job so it seems “dumb” to quit.
There has been talk for the last year or so of moving me out of my office and into a cubicle. I am already making a commitment that if that happens, I am quitting after 30 days.
There has also been talk for several months of moving me out of my office, and not into a cubicle. Out in the open. If that happens I am immedaitely putting in my two weeks notice.
It’s tough to know exactly when to quit unless something drastic happens.
Robert,
Do they know that you are basically ready to quit over the office thingy, or is that just a mental promise you’ve made yourself?
Nope, they have no idea. That would be a “push” that would get me to quit (similar to what Dan said when the company he worked at was bought out).
Robert,
Keep something in your back pocket. I was in a similar position but I was IN a cubicle with other developers, right next to tech support. It was noisy, I kept getting interrupted, etc and it was hard to concentrate. After the boss caught wind of a project I was developing on my own he bought in, but I still couldn’t convince them I’d be more productive in an office.
In short differences came, the distractions were too much and I quit. Sure enough next day I get a call offering me the office if I come back. Nobody wants to work for an employer who holds off the best for their employees and tries to use it for bargaining power. But YOU could keep something in your back pocket in case this happens to you.
Dude. I’ll offer you excellent health insurance if you come work for me at our offices 5 days a week. 😉
-D
I thought you were supposed to be 14… how the heck do you have an office and employees at age 14? That’s flipping crazy…
Hey guys if you have been following along with my blog and my mailing list you know that I put in my notice last month. My last day is next Wednesday (March 25th 2008)!