Package Selling: Can I Buy This Car With No Tires?
One thing you are going to notice over and over again when you put out information products, when you offer your services - and more, is that the average person loves to save a couple of pennies, even if they have to bend over backwards to do it.
It is totally fine for your customers to do that when they going to Wal-Mart, but you should train them not to have that mentality with you. If somebody can't afford what you have to offer, or it is not the right fit, they simply shouldn't buy it!
When it comes to selling your product online, you need to be up-front and clear about what you are giving them; don't be afraid to say "No", and to market more.
Car with No Steering Wheel?
Let's say you went to a car dealership and you were going to buy a car; looked at the car and you said, "I like it but I already have my own steering wheel. Can you sell me the car without a steering wheel?" Or "I already have a stereo. Can you sell me the car without the stereo?" They would almost always tell you "No!"
But it aggravates me when I offer membership training that includes a membership plug-in and people ask, "Can you offer me the training without the plug-in and make it cheaper?"
A few years ago, when I didn't make as much money, I might have tried to negotiate with them. But nowadays it is a lot easier to simply say, "It is all a package deal." I don't try to sneak in any charges; I don't try to say that they pay once but accidentally get re-billed over and over. I am very clear about the monthly recurring - but they can't pick and choose what they want. The offer is "Take it or leave it!"
And it is totally okay to throw in extra features that you already offer, because many of these people who try to negotiate the price down don't look at everything you have to offer; they are only looking at the price. For example, if someone is trying to get my training without the plug-in, I remind them that after all the payments have been made, they are in for LIFE!
Lump Sum?
On the other hand, here is an offer I get every now and then: I get people asking me, "Can I simply pay you some lump sum fee and get access for life right now?" And what they are usually looking for is a way to cut the price because they are paying it all up-front.
As much as I would like to be the "Nice Guy", this gets back to the price training and customer training. I want my customers to get used to paying me month after month, and not buying the whole thing out - so I say "No."
Never be afraid to say "No." It's okay if this person who is asking you is not a perfect fit. This definitely does not apply to everyone. And this definitely does not apply to you. But I have found that if someone is trying to negotiate the price down with me, they are the kind of person who always is trying to find some extra reason for why they shouldn't do something.
For example, they are not buying because the price is too high. That is one roadblock they have put into place. Then, when this type of person finally gets in, they put in more roadblocks for why they can't watch the videos, why they can't take action on the things I've talked on, and why the things they have read about and been taught are not exactly the way they have implemented them.
I don't want that kind of person in my membership sites. I want the kind of people who are willing to try something once without trying to be fancy or reinvent the system until they have tried it. People like me! If someone is trying to remove the packaging or trying to buy your membership all up-front, don't be afraid to say "No."
So what do you do and say? How do you overcome these kinds of price objections or nickel and dime strategies? It's simple! You market more. You create a better sales letter. You split test. You add more follow-ups. You remind people more. You are more confident on your Webinars. And you price your OTHER products at the same level as the thing you really want them to buy.
You want to train people to pay you more. You don't want to be the "Bargain Basement marketer"; you want to be the marketer that actually gets people to do things.
What This Means for Your Offers
So when somebody asks you, "Can I buy this car with no tires?" (And by "car" I mean can they buy into your "Membership site with only half of the components for half the price") tell them "No!"
You made an offer. Everything in your membership site is totally necessary. So they have to pay the full price - and they get the whole thing.
Just remember, the average person loves to save a couple of pennies. But you need to retrain them so that they will actually get something out of your marketing!
This is just as much a favor for them as to you. Be clear about what you are offering, don't have forced continuity, don't fall into the trap of selling "life-time access", don't be afraid to say "No"; and market more, sell more - and price more.
Filed in: Copywriting • Price Training
Subscribe
If you enjoyed this article, subscribe to receive more just like it.
Robert, interesting.
I can understand why you wouldn’t want to offer a package deal. There’s a big risk if people just consume the information and don’t take advantage of the challenges, that they might just be overwhelmed and choose to refund. I can well see the advantages of the piecemeal approach.
Your other issue is more difficult. I’m assuming you’re talking about Membership Cube here, where you offer a free licence to Wishlist Member, as well as many exclusive plugins. Now, as someone who owns Wishlist Member, and understands your marketing model, I’m left in a dilemma. Paying for a second licence (as this covers unlimited sites) is pointless to me. I understand that this licence is not really ‘free’, but instead covered within the package price, and accounted for within overall profit margins. If you were able to offer a real-world difference, based on people who already own this membership plugin, versus people who don’t, I truly believe you’d increase your overall profitability with very little extra added workload.
Thom
Hey Robert,
Interesting post. I have never heard of customers asking for a reduced price by taking away a bonus or anything in that nature.
I have however, seen many product owners not pricing there product at a premium. What I mean by this is that I have a friend that placed his product on click bank, at 27 bucks. After reviewing the product I told him he would be better raising his price to 47.00 because of the bonuses or letting affilites sell it at 80 to 100% profit and use a capture page to get the opt-in.
He thought I was crazy! and he doesn’t sell much of his product either. It’s ashame. I ran into the same thing on Warrior forum when a poster ask what he should sell his product for? I told him and he thought I was to high. Why ask?…
I don’t think there is a problem with having a premium price.
I think your prices on your products are fair. I would raise the price on email crusher though.
Just my thoughts…
William
Robert,
At the moment I don’t have this problem because I haven’t made my membership site yet. But thank you for the advice. I know not to cut any deals… the offer IS the offer… maybe I’ll make a different offer later… but the whole goal is to make bigger packages and not smaller ones.
David
The impossible thing has happened. It has become possible to become one of top5-commenters on your blog after a full week has passed since you wrote.
What has happened? Have you blocked everyone except curious Danes?
Anyway, you’re so right: you would never expect to buy a car without tires, but people will do anything to earn a discount. Even stop commenting on blogs it seems.
Good luck in your endeavours. 🙂
Henrik,
I just haven’t promoted this post to my list yet. Too much good stuff (like free webinars) to promote first. Don’t worry… I’ll mail for this soon and everyone will come flooding in.
I always learn so much from your posts, Robert, and can’t wait to meet you next Thursday!
I don’t have this problem yet, about package prices, deals, etc but with all this pre-knowledge I’ll be able to avoid pitfalls as I set up more products at my sites.
🙂
Evelyn
Interesting, to me it indicates that you have a secondary market, or that perhaps the offer may need work, (I know it sort of hurts the arrogant man to hear this) but I used to work with Walmart, and they spend millions every month in customer service (payroll hours) denying the customer what they wanted, in the end, even if they won the verbal exchange, they lost the battle.
I recommended that they “eat the cost” and reduce the man hours per store, saving them millions of dollars every year in payroll costs, they also were able to reduce the PR ads which resulted in negative publicity, give the customer what they want and stop whining about customers asking you for what they want, which you do not offer.
Give the customer what they want, and you will always be successful.
Deny them and tell them no, every time, and you will Not be successful really it is just that simple, If the customer wants a car with no tires, make him one.
Thomas,
That rhetoric sounds good in theory, but…
With the Membership Cube offer, it included:
1. Wishlist Member
2. Membership training
3. Membership plugins
A good chunk of the people who wanted it without Wishlist Member, were hoping to buy some free membership software and try to fake it.
The only problem:
1. That free plugin they bought will probably break with WordPress in a year or two
2. Every screen, click, and form is drastically different on their free plugin
3. Many of the plugins don’t work as well with other membership software, and some of them are specifically made for Wishlist
So in that case, if I had provided the alternate cheaper version without Wishlist included, people would have had broken membership sites, PLUS I would have made less money. Lose-lose.
Anytime I can offer just one offer instead of 2 or 3, I’ll do it.
Hi Robert,
I hate buying a package only to find out that I need to buy additional items to use my purchase. If the package is complete and following the instructions allows the customer to accomplish his task there shouldn’t be much complaining. A well thought out package presentation would also explain the price leaving no wiggle room.
The choice should be buy or not. Complementary products can be offered in follow-ups, after the purchase.
Dan
Interesting concept, limiting comments like this… I wonder though, does limiting it to 100 comments limit your readers ability to interact and participate? I would think that simply getting 100 comments would be a poor choice when it comes to providing value to your readers, no?
As for bending to demands, I am with you.. if they don’t want what I am selling then its not a good fit. Comparing it to industries like big box retailers isn’t really fair, they are in the market to follow the practice of “the customer is always right” but in IM we are here to sell whatever it is that we are selling, I’m not going to piece together custom packages because I have better ways to spend my time.
I was finally able to start saying ‘No’ in these matters a little over two years ago. It freed me up to truly grow my business and my income, and gave me more credibility overall.
CRG,
Does this mean you’ll eventually phase 1 on 1 coaching out of your business?
Robert,
Good post… no, GREAT post!
I had a subscriber do something similar to me recently. I mailed out for an offer to my list. Told them explicitly that the price was going up on a certain date/time and about two hours after it went up, had a reader email me to ask if they could get it at the original price.
I had to tell that person no. Guess what? They didn’t buy at the new price point.
Spot on Robert! Dan Tredo, my business partner and I are at a critical juncture as we are currently working on a huge marketing project. Pricing, of course, is ever present on the mind. Getting that right is crucial.
I find your post very timely and very helpful. The reminder to stay out of the “bargain basement is great along with that very important word “NO”.
You have made an inestering observation. Lately, I have beenbacking out of every offer, just to see what kind of discounts They are offering when I click “cancel” on the pop-up box.
My big issue with pricing, is people who want a huge lump sum upfront, before you really know what you are getting.
Gloria, that is a big reason why I don’t like to discount or haggle on the price… it trains my customers to try it with me. Just like you’re now trained to close the window on some marketers, in the hopes they’ll give you a lower price.
An interesting post and the comments are just as interesting. I have to agree that the Deal is the Deal and cutting corners to just get 1 or 2 more sales at a lower price is not worth the effort and time it takes to do so. Instead why not offer a totally different package deal that would add value to the first offer? Comment limit got people’s attention and that is the reason for that being done…right? It certainly got those who have commented so far. Win a few … lose a few.
very interesting stuff discussed ,customers will always try to save ,and of course as you said ,big stores always use the buy one get one free tactic, it does work,however ,the internet is different especially if one is buying a course lasting several weeks or more . useful information . very interesting blog
Hi Robert,
I even have this happen in my veterinary practice! I have people try to bargain with my prices. I tell them my price is what it is…
The ones who try to dicker with me are usually not customers I want anyway. They do not value my services. I have no desire to be the cheapest nor necessarily the most expensive. I want to deliver excellent value at a reasonable price that allows my business to grow an flourish so I can continue to provide excellent care to clients and their horses.
I have found that people who start out unhappy will continue to be unhappy and dis-satisfied customers. Best to have a solid core group of loyal customers that appreciate what you offer and its value than a larger group of Wal-Marketeers any day.
Robert,
Assuming you have done the proper thing of over promising and then over delivering (set a great value on the material being sold and then a reasonable price) there should be no reason to negotiate with a customer. The fact that they want to negotiate with you is that they are not accepting the value of the offer.
@Lynn
Excellent point, if I am getting counter offers, that mean one of two things, either my offer is not good enough or my offer needs improvement.
I can really relate to this post Robert; having been in sales for years, I’m always amazed when people try to sell me a “car without a steering wheel.”
I split test ads on my blog’s constantly, and I never allow myself to get into situation where I’m pricing my products to the point they are perceived as…cheap. People will pay for quality!
Another excellent post Robert – I refer people to your posts for training, or to explain concepts in a better way than I can because you have a wonderful way of putting into words what it is I want to say.
I have run into some of what you are talking about and have been amazed at how offended some people get when I don’t allow them to customize my product or offer.
I also have had difficulties with some people I work on joint ventures with, not being able to keep business separate from personal or charity – “I feel guilty charging that much (or charging at all)” – “Can’t we give them a discount/skip a payment/give them this for free…” – ” ‘They’ need this but have no money/can’t afford it/are having financial problems/lost their job/kid is sick/getting divorced/under a lot of stress, yadda yadda yadda… “Can’t we just…”
“NO!”
Eventually, between me and your posts, they understand, but it’s the proverbial ‘pulling teeth’ getting them there.
Glad to have another post to use for training ‘my people’
Thanks Robert
You promised I’d love the post and I do.
What I especially like is that now I have a ready made explanation as to why I can’t break up my packages!
When I bundle my marketing/pr/business architect services together, people do ask is they can have just one piece. I have been saying that my “secret sauce” only works as a whole. I think now a have much better answer. And no, I wouldn’t ever buy a car without a steering wheel.
And as for the extra wishlist license, I am giving it to my assistant in exchange for doing a ton of extra learning on her own time. When she gets up to speed and can support my needs in this area, she gets her own license. 🙂 So it is a valuable piece of the membership.
Hey Robert, how are you?
I liked the post. Resonated with me alot. Recently had a bad experience with a UK letting agent whom I engaged at a low price (he said he was doing a “special” offer of 1 week’s rental as a commission with a minimum of £500 plus VAT).
Turned out he was a total scammer and the prospective tenants (luckily not me as I discovered what he was up to at the last minute and pulled out of the deal) have lost nearly £3,000!!
But then I paid another agent before that his full 10% let only fee (plus VAT) and guess what, still lacking in service! He didn’t get the new tenants to sign the inventory report like I asked him. I was busy with the second property refurb and so I missed this oversight until today. And he never forwarded the email with the photographs from the inventory report either!
So, the point is, I have decided to offer lettings agency as a service to Landlords for rental properties in my local area (radius of circa 4 miles) and I was wondering about what to charge. After reading this post I think I’ll just charge the standard 10%, even though I am a startup operation, because I KNOW I’ll do a MUCH better job than the rest of ’em, and really look after the needs of landlords and tenants.
So, thanks for the backup really… made me realise I shouldn’t offer the service cheap, just do a great job and make sure people know I’m doing a great job.
In a sense this post encompasses, more than one angle of thought.
1. it works on negative forces or an anti-reinforcement, (a psychological tool to disparage unwanted behavior.)
2. Subjective analysis and the comparison of sales tools.
3. Opportunity lost, If customers are asking for something that your not marketing, give them an out.
An out is just a mechanism, (it could even be a list of sorts)
for those customers, that may not be a sale now but you may be able to convert them in the future.
The lost opportunity is what happens when you derive more pleasure from saying no than you would from converting them into a paying customer, psychologically speaking, it is part of human nature for some (sadistic) people to gain some form of pleasure for being right,
(example follows)
Lets take two fictional sales persons, one a guy named Jack the other a guy named, John,
Jack is a Jerk, he could care less if he ever sold a car because he is happy with the base salary he gets every week, while John, has two kids at home and needs to get them food so they can eat.
Now put your self in the customers position, who would you rather do business with someone who tells you to get lost you sorry crappy customer, or
the guy that says, hey you know what, I understand where your coming from, my name is John, and you know what I have the exact set of tires you want.
Sure you could be like Jack and get the Fun of telling the customer to F off, but would it really help your business in the long run, and even more important is this fact,
Some customers ask just to see what type of service then can expect.
Thomas,
So what you are saying is, if the offer doesn’t fit and you are confident saying no because it’s not a right fit… you are being a jerk for not customizing the offer?
I think it would be “more” of a jerk thing to sell someone membership training without the software. They’d need to buy software on top of the training, plus the training wouldn’t apply to everything if they went with a cheap or free membership solution. Which a lot of people do if they’re given a choice, even though the other solutions suck.
I bought a “how to product” this week that covered a subject I already knew, but wanted to know more in detail. I asked the marketer to call me which he did, always a good sign, and we talked for a while and he admitted that the package had some, but not as much detail as I wanted.
He then offered to throw in an additional cheaper product he had that would supplement the larger product to meet my needs. He got my money I got the info a win win situation.
Don’t be so stubborn Robert offer one of your other products as a bonus if the prospect already has wishlist and can prove it to you.
Dale
I am not an attorney or offering legal advice. That being said, it’s my understanding that when you make an offer to someone and they reject it, by making a counter offer (aka negotiation), then that original offer is dead. Now the person making the counteroffer, which is a brand new offer, is making an offer to do something completely different from Robert’s original and published business objectives (the original sales letter). The word “no†or not offering a response at all, on Robert’s end, ends all ancillary discussions.
For me, I respect that he keeps his business objectives intact. Also, he treats everyone the same. I love that. Robert’s terms are always clear, concise, and free from surprises. His behavior is consistent so you know how things will be. Nothing worse than dealing with businesses that constantly change their terms “on the fly.†Part of building trust with others is demonstrated through our consistent behavior.
[excuse the switch of referring to you in third person :)]
I agree with you Robert. No need to complicate things. You’re making an offer and anyone can engage and buy or they can move on. I didn’t buy into one program of yours because I already had one of the items included in the package. I wasn’t offended, upset, or anything. It is what it is. You made an offer. It didn’t fit for with my objects and so I refused the offer. Done. Simple. Easy. You’ve made other offers, however, which I’ve gladly accepted.
In my opinion, the time, money, energy, and overall expense of entertaining countless offers from folks who don’t wish to engage with the presented offers of a business (which are aligned with its vision, mission, and other objectives) isn’t worthwhile.
I think we’ve all twisted ourselves into pretzels to make things work for people on their terms. While they may have had their needs met, ultimately ours were not. Instead, it became, on some level, a win/lose. I think it’s much better to attract the win/win. Not everyone will agree with us or wish to buy on our terms. And, that’s okay. There are still plenty of others who will and, ultimately, those really are the people who you want to engage with.
No one is bad or wrong in this; each is just meeting their objectives so that each wins — which also makes for a more enjoyable market place/economy, and overall positive business relationships. For me, it took more experience as an entrepreneur, and maybe growing a bit older and wiser, to learn that this is my business and this is how I choose to do things. Most importantly, it’s okay if others don’t agree. No one wants to grow up to be a pretzel – not even a regular yoga student like myself. Okay, back to studying contract law. Really Robert, I just happen to be studying contract law today (and for quite a while going forward). Yay! Back to the books – taking 3 law classes this semester :). Great post to respond to during my study break.
I agree with you 100% Robert,
We as internet marketers have to create in the minds of our customers that we are delivering and creating high quality products base on our years of experience.
Through ups and downs and trials and errors that had cost us lots of money to research stuff that would had taken the average person years to figure out. That should count as value in the eyes of a person who wants to avoid the mistakes and financial loses they may have to go through for the same information they acquired.
The price of your product should never be compromised or else they will never see the value you have offered them.
This is very interesting stuff being discussed.
Great blog post Robert.
Actually, I wanted my last car without the dealer tires because I did not like the brand of tire on it…so we switched out…but I did get tires.
You are right…most online things are a package for a reason. It does not work the same without a plug in if that is what the program is about.
You do quality information…so keep up the good work.
..Cynthia Charleen
Wow! I am surprised at the number of commenters who think you, Robert, should cave in and negotiate. I agree with your philosophy of making an offer that has value and if someone doesn’t want to buy it, no big deal. They don’t have to buy it. That person just dis-qualified his or herself as your customer.
I’m with you, Robert. I am in the business of selling great service. If I wanted to spend most of my time compromising, I’d switch professions.
Many, many people are just looking for excuses NOT to do something. It somehow justifies the life that they are unhappy living. I don’t want to play with them, anyway. There are too many great people/clients/customers out there to spend my time with.
Oh, and a PS to Tara: I love contract law. You go, girl!
There is one very important thing to understand here and it’s the way every one of us is wired. As our physical body develops (beginning from the moment of conception), our brain develops three layers: old, middle, and young. We always think with young brain, but the old brain is responsible for ALL the decisions we make based on our internal scale of importance.
When someone asks for a deal it means that accordingly to their internal scale what you offer is not on the top of the list. It’s almost always easier to say “no”, however… before rejecting everyone asking for a deal AND before making decision to start marketing more, you may consider learning what has higher priority for them right now. Because the truth is – many of them could become “golden” customers or clients of yours.
Robert,
Although I have always found your posts/advice to be very helpful I must agree, at least in part, with Thom this time.
We know you are paying for the Wishlist software but you have obviously covered that in the overall price to insure a profit. Why would it be wrong to offer a discounted price to someone who already purchased the unlimited version of Wishlist?
As far as discounts for up front payment we are offering a 3 payment plan and a discounted one payment plan for our membership site. They will not get all the material up front, it will still be dripped each week but with the one payment option the customer saves a few bucks and we get all our money up front.
Sure wish I had run into you and Lance as well as Wishlist before we built the first site. I am hoping we will get it moved to WIshlist and your plugin very soon.
Many Blessings,
Clyde
I really feel like this is an important topic and I can also see that most of you are not “getting it”
I look at it from a different point of view, it is not about saying no or deciding not to negotiate…
From my point of view that has nothing to do with the value of the topic, the value here is the psychological learning curve, As a guy that once sold Vacuum cleaners, door to door back in the seventies.
I have forgotten more about sales than most of you will ever even know.
(in case your wondering yes that was an insult)
(sorry if you feel insulted, but most people do not have a sales background and until you have sold from a cold call or from a locked door you not much of a sale person.)
It is not about saying no.
It is not about being the Big Boss.
It is not about sticking to your guns and showing those ignorant customers who is boss.
It is about the opportunity.
I see a lot of comments that seem to think that “selling” a customer takes more time than it is worth, you know what that is also wrong.
I created a script that automatically negotiates with a customer, if they are on the fence, they can submit a counter offer, I dont have to do anything, so the idea that doing work is too hard or not worth the effort, sorry that just does not seem like a real argument.
Now the idea that you think beyond the borders of what you think is possible now that is what I am talking about, you see it is not about saying no and being the big bad super boss, usually that is how limited people think about limited sales.
If that is what you want, you are probably in the wrong business.
The sales business and that is what this is about, is all about doing what it takes to get a sale, if that means creating a script that does it all for you while you sleep because your too lazy to answer an email message, (or too busy)
either one is fine.
Then that is the right way to think of this because if all you can say is no and I agree with you tell them who is boss
Then you are missing the entire method of making sales.
I think that the most important element of this principle expressed in Robert’s post is: people who don’t want to play YOUR game are not the ideal customers for YOU.
If you bend your principles to meet them on THEIR turf, you’ll regret it, close to 100% of the time.
NO exceptions, and I say this as someone who has bought into ALL of Robert’s courses, and recently come up with “good ideas” of how to bend some of the rules my way, and as a result experiencing being a ‘persona non grata’
I guess compliance is not my strong suit, and that renders me not welcome. such is life.
Well, Robert, I guess you hit an important subject.
I have not been in this business for very long. I guess
you can call me an experienced newbie. For me it is more
important to know what to charge right now for an ebook
for example or another copyright product. When I get
into something, I ask myself how much do I need this
product, which often depends upon how good the sales
letter is! Only when you get into the product will you
now if the price is right or not. You can refund if you
feel you made a mistake. In a situation like that, there
is no reason to ask for a reduced pmt. If you ask for
a reduced pmt, because you don’t have the money, don’t
buy. There is a lot of “waste money” in this business.
Right now I am considering buying the WPDirectory Pro
plugin, but I don’t know if it will work with Wishlist,
so you also have to look at the big picture.
Talk to you soon, I hope.
Robert B.
Reminds me of when someone wanted to buy a package. They asked how much was it and I said $50. So they asked how much it was without xy and z … I said $50.
The price is the price.
It does take some nerve to do it – especially when things are lean.
Thanks for sharing.
Overall a good idea, but what if they already own some of the components, especially the expensive ones? For example, on your membership training, I already own an unlimited domain license to Wishlist. Another example is if I don’t like the expensive component and choose to use another. Example, I like something better than the Wishlist I have and now use something different. Why should I pay $250 more for your membership when I already own that portion?
As I said, overall you have a good idea and are on the right track, but there probably should still be a few exceptions.
Lance
While I have never tried to negotiate when getting this type of product, I guess I can understand the type of person that would. Many people/cultures feel that negotiation is just part of doing business.
And I can understand that people with membership sites are more interested in getting the monthly payment from the largest amount of ‘valuable’ subscribers.
But I am not sure that I agree with not offering a larger flat rate instead of the monthly charge. IF someone wanted to that, it seems to be in the best interest of both the purchaser and the seller. The purchaser gets a deal, the seller does not have to worry about the loss of the customer later.
But I agree that there are always people who will never be happy and will find fault in any thing they buy.
Interesting thing to think about and thanks for sharing!
Carl
Robert you forget that it is customary to barter for a better price in most of the world and some people just always ask for a better price.
I do understand that you don’t want to make special offers that are more of a hassle to deal with, that makes sense. For the most part I agree.
As a consumer you sometimes get products that you really don’t in some deals, (that printer with the computer that you just bought) that too is a issue that the consumer needs to remember. Again, I don’t like that either but sometimes you end up with extra parts.
A good example of this might be when you buy let’s say faucet for the kitchen. Well it comes with all of the parts to install it 2 or 3 different ways, so you get all of these extra parts that you don’t need and have to be tossed out. There the consumer doesn’t ask to get credit for the parts that they are not going to use.
Well, maybe they do, I will have to ask my hardware guy.
My other half works for a major retailer and she is asked daily for deals that are not marked on the product.
This is the country that we live in now, I am not saying that I like it but those are the facts.
And something that you are not privy to (to young) is that ARRP group that is suppose to help the seniors suggests that you ask for a discount on everything that you buy. You just might get it. Because of that I now ask more often for that discount.
Hey, Robert, that reminds me I have been meaning to ask you for a Senior discount plan on all of your products.
🙂
I can see the steam now…..
Robert,
From the number of comments and their variety, you have uncovered a topic of interest to many.
As a dentist, we, too, have some patients (fortunately not many) that want to “nickel and dime” away at their treatment and fees. Just like Dr Debra, veterinary specialist, describes similar circumstances with her patients. The bottom line is that if you have educated your customer to the value and benefits of your product/service, the “price” should not be a big issue. When we, as business owners, have not accomplished this, then questions come up and the dickering starts.
So, hold your ground and don’t give in.
But, the suggestion to give a bit extra if someone is on “the fence”, is not a bad one. In my dental practice, we use smile whitening frequently as a bonus to other treatments to help move patients forward with needed care.
Ps. Good to see Connie Ragen Green’s comment – for those who do not know her, she is awesome. Just like Robert.
PPs. For Gloria Washington, great idea. I have also been leaving the sales page, even if I plan to buy, just to see what discount offer pops up. This is how we are being trained!!
Keep up the thought provoking topics!
I think your “selling a car without a steering wheel” analogy is misplaced here Robert.
This is more like selling a TV and a DVD player packaged together.
If someone wants your TV but already has a DVD player it’s hardly surprising they would want to see if you could do the TV without the DVD player. And if you won’t budge, then usually they won’t buy the TV they want because they feel they’re throwing away money on a DVD player they don’t need.
Now it’s up to you if you don’t want to target those customers and you only want customers who need both. I would have thought it couldn’t be too difficult to offer both with and without options – but that’s your choice.
But I suggest you don’t play psychological games with yourself trying to convince yourself there’s something wrong with those customers for wanting to negotiate.
Ian
Ian, the only problem with your analogy is that any TV and DVD player is basically interchangeable.
Can you plug anyone’s membership software into anyone’s membership training? If the training is any good, then the answer is no.
My issue with offering Membership Cube without Wishlist Member is that quite a few people lie about actually having Wishlist. They think they can get by with an alternative (which they can’t, I teach Wishlist) or they think they’ll buy Wishlist at a later date (which they shouldn’t).
If you don’t want the TV/DVD combo, my choices are either to saw off the player (probably breaking it) or make a whole new TV without the DVD player (which wouldn’t be as good).
What’s to stop you saying I don’t need to buy the remote control either? Or the instruction manual?
If someone already owns Wishlist then they can re-sell their license.
I feel like I am getting pulled too far down into “analogy world” here…
I absolutely agree with Thom and his comments on the membership cube and wishlist member plugin. Maybe when you first put this site together, the opportunity to include WLM was a good idea. However, 12 months down the road, I am sure there are many more people who already own the unlimited WLM and only require your training and other great resources and products you provide.
I have already been through Stu’s training and created 5 membership sites. For me when I was told about the analytics and dripfeed plugins I decided they would be a very valuable addition to running my sites, and that is my reason for joining membership cube.
We live in a society of throw away. Why is it suddenly wrong to ask only for what you want?
When I bought my car I was given the option of power steering, electric windows, 2 or 4WD, 5 or 7 seats, clear or tinted windows, engine size, colour etc.. you get the picture. Your offer of WLM with membership cube is an extra. A regular car will not operate without a steering wheel. You cube site would be just as valid a product without including WLM.
Also, please don’t assume that all people who ask for changes/deletions to a specific offer are out to ‘screw” you. I for one am not!!
I do not want another license for WLM. I do not need it and I don’t like to pay for things that I do not need and do not want.
Isn’t it prudent business practice to review products which we have for sale. Don’t times change? Don’t circumstances change?
Why not give us a choice? When deciding to buy a product, and exhibit A is a part of the package – perhaps offer a one time alternative? Exhibit A (WLM) or exhibit B (????). It’s not like you don’t have a bunch of ideas up your sleeve now – is it Robert?
It’s not about the money – your membership cube is good value – it’s about the waste! I have enough stuff cluttering up my computer and office, without being forced to pay and take additional items that I do not want or need!
It’s about being environmentally friendly – it’s about being green. The larger issue is about everyone using what they have, efficiently and effectively. Not having to buy bigger and better “stuff” to house the “stuff” we did not want or need in the first place!
Lauren,
Would it make a difference if I told you that…
1. Wishlist is a free bonus, not part of the package — if you subtract a $0 bonus from the offer then the price for a “non Wishlist” Membership Cube membership is the same
2. I take a loss on the Wishlist license — since it’s $297 and membership is $47 every 2 weeks — it’s a lead generator like when banks put $100 in the bank if you get a checking account with them
3. Out of 300 people I surveyed, of those that actually have membership software, only 53.9% of those have 1 or more paying members — so the training is actually much more important than the software
If I were to offer a version of Membership Cube without Wishlist, what should the price point be? (Current price point is $47 every 2 weeks for 18 payments.)
Wow – I can see this is a HOT topic!
From where I sit, this is more of a credibility issue than anything else. The biggest problem with changing or customizing an offer in any way is that once you do it for one person, the word gets out, and then you better be prepared to do it for everyone else who makes a request.
Otherwise, flush your credibility down the toilet.
In my opinion, it’s too labor-intensive and it shows partiality and/or preferential treatment. It’s like giving your brother a better deal than your neighbor.
As long as people know PRECISELY what they’re getting when they make a purchase, there shouldn’t be a need to make any exceptions, exchanges, or omissions. If someone already has one or two or three of the components in a package-type product, then don’t buy it.
Robert
This is Excellent Advice and I will use it on my next membership site I am getting ready to launch in 2 weeks. Your advice has proven very beneficial to me in the past with my current membership site.
I can not thank you enough for your critique of the sales page on it. After following your advice I went from an .5% conversion to now I am close to 4% conversion and am getting 5-6 new members a month from your advice. before i was lucky to get 1 new membership a month.
I will buy you a beer on Thursday.
See you then
Robert
I’ve only taken two new one on one students during 2010, so, yes, I am phasing that out of my business. I prefer to work with small groups to achieve a common goal with their online marketing.
Robert, in answer to the gentleman Thomas, a couple of points.
One is Walmart is the largest retailer in the world, bar none so with that volume they are going to have some customers who are unhappy for whatever reason. But they didn’t grow that big and profitable without pleasing a lot of customers also.
Set the guidelines and go from there because you absolutely can’t please all the people all the time or be all things to all customers.
Believe me, when you stop spending time with those that continually want something for nothing or you can’t supply or support it, that same time goes toward making your company more profitable.
In essence, you don’t need EVERY customer in the world.
95% of customers you meet would make good neighbors. 3% get up on the wrong side of the bed at times just like you and I do. The other 2% aren’t worth wasting your time on so don’t devote your whole day to trying to please them or fix problems that can’t be fixed.
With that said, actual and legitimate problems should be resolved to the best of your ability as quickly as possible but the others should be ignored.
By the way, do you know there are some companies that deliberately set their prices higher so they don’t have to deal with as many complaints? There seems to be some logic to that as they keep making great profits.
The list is on the sales letter for http://www.membershipcube.com … it’s all listed on there.
I think Robert is right again and this interview with a pricing expert will really clear it up for you, if you still have any doubt.
The pricing expert talks about the importance of profit margin in business and how you CAN NOT make up for low profit margin with volume. Big mistake!!! He also warns about the pitfalls of dealing with “price buyers” or those people who are only factoring in price for their decision to buy. Price Buyers are the worst of all. Price buyers complain the most, they lie the most, they take up the most of your time, and they refund the most.
Ian,
“You are missing out on genuine customers.” Is there a scientific way to tell if I am really losing out on customers or not?
Every time I have split tested 2 payment buttons on a page versus 1… even a simple payment plan with interest… it’s decreased conversions.
“It’s not too hard to make your conditions clear and to not support those who don’t have wishlist.” But I’ve said that without Wishlist, good chunk of the training is irrelevant.
Robert – my analogy is not perfect. But yours certainly isn’t either.
You seem to be very focused on customers who are intent on ripping you off and messing you around. Yet we’ve already seen on this thread a couple of potential customers who already have wishlist member and who would be interested in your membership cube without wishlist.
It’s not too hard to make your conditions clear and to not support those who don’t have wishlist.
Again – there’s no reason whay you have to do this. But don’t kid yourself that everyone is out to get you. You are missing out on genuine customers.
And regarding “what if I told you the price of wishlist was zero?”. That just doesn’t fly. Basic human psychology. If the sales guy tells us the DVD is free with the TV we don’t believe them. We “know” it’s just a ploy to get us to pay full price for something we don’t need. And they lose credibility.
Your choice though.
Ian
Great advice Robert
A “product” is as it is and negotiation just wastes time. It usually doesn’t gain customer loyalty, repeat business, referals or any benefit for you.
Being very clear, open and steadfast with your product description and pricing will gain customer loyalty, repeat business and referals – because people feel safe and that they are not being mis-lead at any point in time.
What are your experiences with offering “add-on” products, such as get this widget at 50% off when you buy . . . ?
If is always a recommended tactic, but have you experienced a best way for “add-on” sales or up-sells?
Hi Robert, Thank you for your thoughts on this. Very good.
My nature is to bend over backwards to attract and help my customers.
I did my first WordPress workshop in London on Friday and applied exactly this principle. (It did not make any money (!), but gathered customers and hopefully, some goodwill)
But from a pure profit standpoint, I suspect you are right. Although I have read carefully Thomas Bodetti’s contributions here…
This has to be the greatest lesson in how to get people to come to your site and start talking and it is human nature that not every person is going to agree.
To me Roberts business and teaching model is the best and it is up to me to get the best out of it.
Look at the feed back Robert getting to be able to use for tweaking his business model…priceless.
keep up the great work Robert at least you have the body that won’t sway all over the place when the wind blows to strong!
Stay Standing TALL and STRONG….this is who you are
Robert – aren’t you an affiliate for Wishlist? If not why not? And if so, your price point is not $297 is it? So how honest are you being about the whole price thing?
I agree with Ian’s comment above – I think ‘it’s just a ploy to get us to pay full price for something we don’t need!
I think this whole discussion is really several different topics mixed up in one comment thread. It’s about..
1) Value for money
2) Being satisfied with a product/service
3) Customer Service – (selling your customer what they want to buy – not what you want to sell)
4) Being true to yourself
5) Not being bullied by customers wanting to pay a cut price for the whole product or service.
6) Having to “pay” for a product you do not need or want – because it is “included” in the package.
Interesting topic.
And Robert the price point should be $47×2 deducted off the cost of the cube membership – not quite the price you pay (if you are an affiliate) so you can still claim a lost leader and feel good about that, and also the customer will not feel like they are paying for something they do not want. Something to think about!
Lauren,
Now that I’ve had a day or two to think about this, here’s my question to you…
If you were coming to me having already bought Wishlist, what bonus could I add into Membership Cube worth $297 to you, that others don’t get?
Something that would basically make up for the otherwise “wasted” $297.
Because if I were to offer M3 without Wishlist — just hoping you already had it — the price would still be $47 every 2 weeks. Same deal with Webinar Crusher without GoToWebinar… that’s also $47 every 2 weeks, which is about $99 per month, which is the same price as GoToWebinar… I’m not giving that away for free.
So instead of subtracting the price, what bonus could I add?
If I were to buy this used part and that used part and then again another used part in the hopes of patching up my vehicle, eventually I will get to the point where it would be cheaper to buy another whole car rather than its individual pieces.
My father raised a family of five as an autowrecker, selling parts to all kinds of people. There were only a few simple rules to his business.
1. He took the part off and made sure it worked before you bought it.
2. All sales were cash, in advance.
3. A thirty day money back guarantee on the part that my Dad sold you, providing it had not been abused.
Robert has a similar system… he knows his product works, because he has had a hands on experience with the product… he sets his terms and sticks by them… and he has a guarantee.
(At least I think he has a guarantee, but it does not matter to me as I continue to refer to parts of the many courses I have bought from him)
I did my due diligence with the first product I bought from Robert, but became more willing over time just to buy because he was the one who had produced the item.
One short tidbit about my father…
One day in the early 1960s some one came to our yard looking for a left side windshield for a 1939 Cadillac Touring Sedan.
Dad said yes, he had one, and that it would take about half an hour to take it out and bring it back to the storefront after the sale price was paid.
The prospective customer asked if he could look at the glass before he bought and my father agreed.
They walked through the yard for nearly three hundred yards and the customer spoke of his efforts to procure just such a piece of glass.
He had visited over 40 autowreckers in a 500 square mile radius and several of them had recommended my father as the most likely source to get such an item.
The man agreed that it was indeed free of defects and wanted to give my father the cash right there in the yard, but he said, “No… we’ll walk back to the office and do this up right… paperwork and all”
When Dad started to write the amount of $15.00 down on the sales receipt, the man balked… complaining that the competitor twenty miles down the road was willing to sell it for $10.00
Calmly, my father inquired whether the competitor had any in stock to which the customer replied, “Yes, but it has a crack in the top inside corner.”
My father suggested that they go back to the car and see if this one had a crack that they had missed and took his tools to remove the glass at the same time. When they got there my Dad very calmly took a ball pean hammer out of his kit and cracked the glass, turned to the man and said, “This one is cracked too! But I’ll let you have it for $9.00 and save you the time and trouble of going back to the other place.”
That particular customer did not see the value in my father’s product, so my father provided him with what the customer himself saw… “A Value Less Product”
There are times when I don’t understand what Robert is up to, and there are times when I can’t imagine needing all that he packs into an offer.
But I have learned to take all that is there and run with it… there will always be time later to review
Ah man, I got here late…
I agree that you shouldn’t give out deals, if one person gets a deal and others find out about it, they’ll expect you to give them a deal as well.
While I think something like lower introductory or limited time prices are good as long as you set a specific date/sales #…
So in a sense you’re training them to buy as soon as products come out.
Overall, I think you have a great strategy …I’ll be working on getting my continuity programs going.
Hey jbode, you’re only late if all the comments are filled up… so you’re still on time.
Yep, I’m all for introductory pricing because it trains them to buy right now. If you only discount stuff later, then you’re training them to wait for the discount… not good.
What’s the deadline on when your next cont. program comes out?
Every time I try to leave a salespage and get offered a lover price *on the same package*, I find it seriously annoying. The price should be the price! Why should someone who only kinda-sorta wants the package get a better price?
On the other hand, if it is a big, complicated package, and a smaller subset of the package is offered, that is less bad.
Still, I want to know up front what the deal is, not have to haggle over the price for fear I’m needlessly paying a premium while others know to demand a lower price.
I like knowing that the price is the price, and it is the same for all.
Robert,
You bring out some good points. Jeanne and I work with several Chamber of Commerce organizations to promote our membership site to their members. Many of this brick and morter companies are not familiar with membership sites or the concept of webinar based training. I was thinking of offering an intro price for one month to entice them to try the training.
After reading your article, I am having second thoughts. Any input?
Sue White
I’ve been seeing this quite often lately.
I’m not a fan of websites that have a great salespage and videos sales letters and after joining you only have access to the very basic information. They act like this is all the details you’ll need to make a fortune online or do what you want to get accomplished.
But, when you purchase, you’re taken to an oto upsell page where they are trying to push you either the software with a recurring monthly fee or some other high priced package that will greatly enhance and increase your efforts.
I guess they are building a buyer’s list and bulding a recurring income at the same time but, I have to ask…
Are the losing credibility by doing this???
Kenny,
Yep, and that’s the problem by not having package selling…
Why try to promote a recurring site or extra stuff on the backend, when you can just buy into the thing upfront.
And as for long form sales letters, even if you don’t like them, I recommend you try them… it allows you to spell out EXACTLY what people get in your offer and at what time. Plus, when they’re ready to buy they can just skip down to the bottom and buy.
The problem with your long 8 month membership program and the way you promote it…
You say you can have your site up and running in a few days but yet you make people wait 8 months to get all the info to do it.
I already know how to use wordpress and wishlist member for the most part but need help figuring out content and laying out the class material. I am not sure if your system does that because I just don’t have time to read through all of the other junk on your very long sales page. I hate sales pages anyways – the longer the worse they are for me because they are all just hype to sell. I would prefer seeing how you used it if you really did and for what sites. I would prefer info on how to develop them so I know you know what you are talking about. I don’t trust people who have long sales pages.
I just want my membership site up and going by the end of the month – not a year later.
You are assuming that people who want to parcel out your product won’t be the type you want in your program or won’t be the kind of person to follow through- how judgmental and oh yes I guess it is just about getting 8 months of income for you!
They aren’t just that type of person who wants to make excuses on other things – get a grip.
Julie
Julie,
That is a pretty common issue that comes up and the easy answer is, you get the beginner information right when you join.
It’s only a problem for people who think they need to know every little thing before taking any action… that’s the wrong way to go about it.
Right now, the only things you need to worry about are setting up a membership site, and getting the proper plugins and content out there for your first member.
Bonus items, extra modules, content 6 months down the line, an affiliate program… those are all things you only need AFTER the basic membership site is setup.
That’s why it’s dripped out like that. Instead of overloading and confusing you, you get exactly what you need right now, exactly what you need tomorrow… and so on. It’s a step by step plan.
Hi,
I just want my membership site up and going by the end of the month – not a year later.
This is very interesting stuff being discussed.
Aliss,
That’s why I give you a week or two of stuff upfront in Membership Cube and not just one day’s worth at the start… so you can go at your own pace.
I Built my own membership site and still working on it.
Thanks
Caesar,
Thanks for sharing… when will it be done?
Wow, spirited discussion!
I almost feel like most posts here are missing the point that Robert’s making, and as a M3 member I can attest to. Without Wishlist, much of the training is irrelevant and there is no support for other membership plugins so the customer would not have a good experience without it. That just won’t make sense. Many of the plugins are made specifically for WL and most of the training revolves around using WL in combination with the other plugins. M3 is built around WL and if someone doesn’t want to use WL, then this program isn’t for them.
Robert’s comment about adding a bonus for existing WL owners could be a viable option since you’d be getting something worth just as much, as long as it was something that would make sense to add on for someone creating membership sites and was a real world 297 value.
@Julie – although you may not like long sales letters, they normally convert much better and are often necessary to explain what’s included if there is a lot, as there is in M3. And although the M3 page is long, it’s not hype in my opinion. (I know there are many hyped long sales letters, but there are good and bad in every category) I think it lays out in detail what you get, provides credibility with testimonials and lets you skip down to buy if you don’t want to read everything. I actually appreciate the detail because most every question I had was answered and helped me make a decision to get or not get.
BTW, you can create a membership site the day you join M3 with WL and WP Drip, the extra plugins are not essential to get a site up and running and they can be added later on. And the first months training shows you one membership model you can use. It’s clearly explained on the M3 sales letter under Month 1, but yes, you do have to take a minute to read it :).
And even though I didn’t own WL before joining M3, I would have still joined for the training, plugins, support and extras. Probably would have sold my WL license to a client or associate, even at a discount, no big deal (and would have enough cash to make the first few months payments on M3 too!).
It all depends on how you look at it.
Robert,
I can’t answer your question “what would I add?” I am only 6 weeks into the site so I don’t know what all is included in the site. If there is a list of the exact contents of each month on the course, I must have missed it. Where would I find that info?
Lauren
Just read Julie’s comment. Yes, the assumption with Cube is that the new joining member is a neophyte.
The process is excellent for beginners, but for those with existing membership sites it can be very frustrating.
Personally, I have five membership sites already up and running. I currently have lots of members in my FTM sites, and I want to be able to utilize the analytics plugin now to see what they are all doing. To wait for it’s release is exasperating.
Hi Robert,
I am not so experienced in the pricing of products as I tend to buy more than I sell at present…
But this post has opened my eyes up for when I do sell more products of my own in the future.
I just created my first Information Product 4 weeks ago and must be honest, I didn’t have a clue as to how much to sell it for.
After reading this post and many of the comments here I think I might be underselling myself.
Great post, Great Topic,
Robert
Enjoyed reading Robert’s post and each comment because I like the independent way of doing things by Robert and quality subscriber base.
In principle robert’s business model may be right, but Thomas Bodetti’s is well qualified to add his point.
Some commenters are right to point out that people who do not buy are not to be dismissed.
My experience of selling to retailers has shown me how each one goes about it. Different models can be made to work, though the higher price model works well for many. Key is a set of factors necessary to “adapt” each model, because there are factors at play and circumstances may be different.
The concept of adaptation is arguably valid online. While going for a NO stance may be good business practice for some business people or companies, it cuts out potential business.
My experience is people are not always given what they want.
All in all, Robert knoss one thing or two on how to start an interesting post.
Giovanni Dattoma
I find it strange that so many people are telling Robert how to run his programs. I’m not sure I’d be so nice to let those type of comments to remain. Thanks, Robert.
Isn’t it all about credibility? If you’re familiar with Robert’s products from previous purchases you might not need all the testimonials but I still want answers to my questions about a product. A longer sales letter allows answers to anticipated questions.
I can understand the pricing questions from relative newcomers but don’t understand it from IMers actually making money online. I, for one, find it difficult to invest in more than one $1K program at a time.
Dan
Dan,
I have no problem leaving the comments here… I can take the heat.
Yep, you’re right… there’s no way to handle all the objections a long form sales letter does with a short form sales letter, video sales letter or tabbed wordpress sales letter.
I am also interested in this plugin, but I just couldn’t justify waiting all those months to get past the basic information, AND purchase another copy of Wishlist. I think this is a great discussion as everyones just keeping it real and not sucking up to Robert.
Robert, I personally think this is a mistake. I have purchased and used some of your existing products and made excellent use of them, but as I stated earlier, purchasing WL, waiting months for content to leak out and the productivity wasted is just not worth the investment.
I don’t think your credibility is at stake (which a lot of people seem to think), this is a business decision and an understandable way of preventing your course being shared online for the sneaky downloaders/refunders. You may have other reasons too but if I had launched a course than this would be one of my priorities, especially if I was a well known marketer such as yourself.
Just my 2c.
– Dean
Dean,
Which plugin were you interested? WPDrip is already available on its own without Wishlist. I’m “might” make maybe one or two of the plugins available on their own but it definitely won’t be a pick and choose kind of course.
One difference between me going to a car dealership (or any store for that matter) and you promoting your online product is that I (and I alone) control when I go there. In other word, I come to you. You do not come to me.
If I do not like what I see there, I control whether or not I want to go somewhere else and buy there instead. I will negotiate. If the dealer does not want to negotiate, no problem. There are plenty of dealers out there.
I don’t care how great a product is. Sooner or later, there will always be something greater.
When I subscribed to your list, my goal was mainly to learn from you, not to be sold to. Your main goal, on the other hand is to sell to me. The content you provide is something that needs to be done to gain my trust…so you can sell to me…over and over and over again.
I have received probably 15 emails about your plugin already and I will bet you anything that I will get at least another 15 emails promoting (or pushing) the same thing.
Now having said all this, I am NOT knocking your product(s) down. I’m sure it must be absolutely great. It must be because you keep reminding me about it.
BUT PLEASE, do not compare selling products in the offline world with the online world. It is different…period.
Hi Robert,
I loved the automobile analogy. I intend to paraphrase it.
Like several others I tend to “low ball” myself and bend over backwards for customers. I will not anymore.
I spend three days last week attending a seminar with another internet marketer with whose opinion I respect as much as I do yours. He said the same thing as you about pricing and not unbundling your product.
I happen to believe your model of dripping product out is the right one. I see from my own experiences that consumption is critical to your customer getting value out of the purchase. It also allow you to “over deliver” by including the information in more than one format.
Thanks for the post.
Warren
Great thoughts, Robert! Looks like you’ve stirred up all kinds of emotions with this one.
My product offerings aren’t numerous enough to have any bundles or packages yet, so I’ve simply not had to deal with any requests for price reductions or splitting packages apart. I’m actually glad, because now I know what to expect once I do start offering package deals.
Just say no!
Hello Robert,
Your article is a very good reminder (warning ?) for me.
I am finishing a membership site for my readers and have been thinking of ways to make the best offer.
Actually, I reckon I always shoot myself in the foot because so many members are only obsessed to cut the price or, as you say, to get the car without the wheel, hoping it would be cheaper for them. In this situation Mr Nice guy is a business screwer, if I may say.
I’m in health and well being business, in this niche like in many others maybe, people are so used to hope health solutions should be free, they even insult you if you refuse to cut the price down for them (and my prices are really reasonable) or get the vaccin without the seringue.
Reading your article gives me a better motivation to say now and keep on promoting. It might be cruel, but I guess there is nothing else I can do, unless you have a seconde best shot to suggest.
Thanks.
Olivier
And if you want to go back to the car analogy- I get to choose the color, the make and model so I get just what I want…
Julie
What if I don’t have that color, make and model? And you can’t say you’ll go to someone else… because no one else has it besides me.
My 2 cents…
Almost every sales page or offer that I look at includes some bonuses. In most cases they are “worth” more than the actual product.
Does this mean that I should get a discount if don’t take the bonus? Of course not. A bonus is like a special deal.
That’s it.
In fact, the guru’s often have bonus wars. And it is profitable. During a launch some people ACTUALLY buy the product JUST to get the bonus. I know I have.
The difference with Membership Cube is the WLM is just a BONUS.
That’s it.
If you have been through the class or see the work that we do, then $850 is an ABSOLUTE steal.
Go buy a $2k package from a guru and compare with one of our courses and I promise ours will look like a $5k package immediately.
Even IF we took out the WLM bonus. I still think the course is under priced.
One of the things we have noticed is that if we let people have more content then they can consume, they end up making MISTAKES. HUGE mistakes.
Why?
They didn’t watch all of the training and missed something because “they knew it already”
There is a TON of value in having courses dripped.
What good is an advanced plugin if you don’t have the training that goes with it?
Anyway… best wishes everyone!
One other thing that I wanted to mention.
We have actually split test this.
Everyone asked us to move WPdrip into an affordable, stand alone plugin.
When we did this we got complaints that they weren’t getting the correct training (all in Membership Cube) and why we would sell something that NEEDED a $297 plugin (Included with Membership Cube).
It made very little impact on sales of either WPDrip or Membership Cube.
Seems like with most things in marketing.
You can never make everyone happy, so better to decide how to best deliver according to YOUR model.
Have a great day!
I have completed membershipcube about 9 months ago, and since then have been running my own profitable membership sites.
The complainers, like Julie, don’t understand that if they get the challenges done at a faster rate than they are dropped out, they can request the next material dropped out for them immediately, it is a 30-second job for the webmaster.
But if they don’t get the challenges done, they are just in learning mode, and complaining mode, and bs mode…
I have 3 students that have completed 8 weeks worth of challenges in 10 days.
They are ready for their final 3 challenges. I am proud of them, and I don’t hold them back.
More power to them.
I have heard Robert and Lance promise the same thing in their pitch webinars.
With regards to the exact modules: the description on the sales page is accurate. If you don’t like to read, get Free Natural Reader, and it will read it for you. That’s what I do… then I can multitask: listen and do other menial stuff.
This way I won’t publicly fling my ignorance and beligerance…
No sorry I didn’t understand that you could get access to the content earlier- if that was known that would solve half the problem. They don’t tell you that up front and from this initial post it didn’t sound like they wanted to do that. They just want you to go at their pace. I work from home and make most of my living online so it wouldn’t be hard to complete something like that in a shorter amount of time.
I am not complaining -just pointing out my perspective.
Actually I do love to read but it has to be meaningful and I would rather have something pared down to a few paragraphs than dragging on and on and reading forever. I just don’t have time for long sales pages…Sorry it’s just life not being belligerent.
Robert,
After reading your follow up posts concerning different anologies I must say I see your point and I had never thought about someone being able to sell their Wishlist license. I did not know that was possible. Although that would not recoup their entire purchase price it would make your offer a much sweeter deal as it would giver them the “discount” of whatever they sold their license for.
BTW, Do you see a problem with offering a one time payment with a discounted price as oppossed to a 3 payment deal for a 3 month membership site? It seems like a good deal for everyone as it gives us money right up front and allows the member to save a few bucks.
Looking forward to more more info from you sir,
Clyde
Great post, Robert. I totally agree that the right way to deal with people whose only objection is price don’t see the value and would be happy yet tobuy at any price.
The only way to deal with them is to stay firm on price and continue to demonstrate value until they either buy or leave.
I can see RPs point – I’m selling ‘X’, if you want ‘Y’ I don’t have it; if you want ‘X’ minus ‘a’, I don’t offer that. Some may consider that arrogant but RP appears to have built success on that model.
I can see others concern they are buying ‘a’ when they already have that. RP counters it’s a bonus not costed into the price of the package, and, if you have ‘a’ already, sell the extra copy.
In my offline business I follow Alan Weiss’s model of offering clients a choice – ‘a’ or’b’ package – if a client baulks at the price I just add more value rather than discount. Discounting may make the buyer feel they won, but they also mistrust you for trying to overcharge them in their eyes, and other clients who paid full price feel you’ve overpriced them if they find others got the same deal for a lower price.
RP does what he says – trains his prospects/customers mentality re buying from him. I’m in m3 and I’m locked in – if I cancel I lose the licences I perceive I bought – effective handcuffs that keep me paying irrespective of my purchase experience.
Hi Robert,
Lance dropped your blog link in a Skype conversation that we were having so I thought I’d come and have a look. I’m glad I did.
You have a good blog here, very robust too.
I like your “no nonsense” stance on things.
Generally, the people who whinge and moan and complain on price will also find other things to whinge and moan and complain about. You can waste a LOT of time on trying to appease these people. And in the end the effort is usually just not worth it. They are almost always ungrateful for whatever you do for them anyway.
For example, I had a guy last week who bought one of my products. He sent me a message saying: “There’s a virus in your download link. Please provide me with a fresh download link for me or refund my money.”
I promptly informed him that there was NO virus (how stupid would that be of me anyway?) and that dozens of other people had downloaded that product on either side of him without any concerns. Then I decided to test him. I said that if he wanted a refund he could have it because I couldn’t care less about losing a single sale.
He came back to me replying that his anti-virus was too severe and was blocking everything. (DUH!) He installed a new anti-virus and LO-AND-BEHOLD he had no problems with the download. The point is, he was trying to make his generic problem something for me to fix.
Also, so many people simply don’t read instructions, misunderstand things or, as you say, want some sort of SPECIAL deal. Too many of them just fly-off-the-hammer accusing all sorts of things. Don’t you just love that?
Along those lines… I had some twit abuse me publicly on one of my YouTube videos recently purely because I’m a friend of somebody who he had bought from and not received one of the advertized bonuses. He called us both clowns and insinuated that we were rip-off merchants. He got put straight pretty quickly.
Unfortunately, so many of these people seem to believe that cliche “the customer is always right” and feel as though they need to ENFORCE their rights even when it is they who are wrong.
I don’t mind helping decent people at all but when it comes to pushy or aggressive people who just want to argue the point or cut a special deal then I’d MUCH rather just tell them to shop elsewhere. I don’t need their hassle.
Robert, I believe you are having a birthday soon. I was trying to convince Lance to take you to the Yamashiro restaurant near the Hollywood sign. I’ve been there and found it brilliant.
Anyway, have a good birthday mate. If you’re a friend and business partner of Lance then I know you must be a good guy coz “birds of a feather…” and all that.
Sorry about the long post. I got a bit carried away.
Best Wishes
Gary Simpson
TEMPLE
I can see it from both perspectives. People want to make sure they get the best possible deal, especially when money is tight. And the customer is always right. Yes?
Happy Birthday Robert,
You are only 26 years old? That just defies logic!
Thanks for being an inspiring thought leader in real Internet marketing.
Rick Butts
Hi Robert,
I like your concept of the “roadblock mentality.
There are a lot of “serial whingers” which can take your eye off the ball and waste time.
Best regards, Gren.
Interesting to read. Well I like to know the name of the theme you use here.
Robert you are so right on being consistent about pricing as well as about the nature of the buyer who attempts to avoid going straight in – paying the price – and the corresponding truth of how that person approaches the discipline that is called for to demonstrably IMPLEMENT what they are learning.
I’ll even go as far as saying that when I’ve tried to weasel into a offer because I knew the author or came up with some fudge factor to get a freebie or price concession – I’m 100% guilty of failing to implement or do the work.
And in the end, what did saving money really cost me?
Answer: everything.